Becoming Subjective

1. What is Kierkegaard saying in Section 2, Chapter 1 of Concluding Unscientific Postscript?

In Section 2, Chapter 1 of Kierkegaard’s Concluding Unscientific Postscript to Philosophical Fragments, the pseudonymous author Johannes Climacus begins to articulate what it means to be a subjective thinker. This section is crucial because it lays the groundwork for Kierkegaard’s famous contrast between subjectivity and objectivity, particularly in relation to truth, existence, and Christianity.

Here’s a distilled sense of what’s going on:

⚡ The Central Theme: Truth as Subjectivity

Climacus argues that truth is subjectivity, particularly when it comes to matters of existence and religious faith. This doesn’t mean that facts don’t matter or that everything is relative, but rather that the most important truths—especially those concerning how one exists—cannot be accessed through detached, objective analysis. They must be lived.

He writes not as a systematic philosopher, but as someone seeking to highlight the existential dimension of truth. A person can have all the correct doctrines or arguments and yet not be in the truth, if they lack the inward passion or commitment that makes it real for them.

🔍 Objective vs. Subjective Thinking

  • Objective thinking is concerned with what is true, independent of the knower. It wants clarity, certainty, and detachment—like in science or speculative philosophy.
  • Subjective thinking, in contrast, is about how one relates to the truth. The “how” becomes more decisive than the “what.” It’s existential, passionate, and inward. The issue is not just whether something is true, but whether you live in a way that is true to it.

This leads Climacus to say things like:

“The truth is not the truth but the way.”

Or more famously:

“Subjectivity is truth.”

✝️ Faith and Paradox

Kierkegaard is building toward his idea that faith, especially Christian faith, is not an objective certainty but a subjective passion for the absurd. The paradox of the God-man (Christ), for example, is not something you can prove or understand objectively—it must be believed in spite of reason, and that act of faith is what matters most.

🧠 Thinkers vs. Existers

Climacus suggests that thinkers like Hegel are concerned with constructing beautiful systems of thought, but fail to deal with what it means to exist. In contrast, the subjective thinker asks: How should I live? How do I relate to my own existence, to suffering, to death, to God?

📍Bottom Line:

In this chapter, Kierkegaard (via Climacus) is:

  • Critiquing the dominance of objective, system-building philosophy.
  • Arguing that existential truth—especially religious truth—is found in subjective appropriation.
  • Preparing the ground for his concept of faith as a passionate, inward commitment to the paradoxical and the absurd.
2. What do you mean by subjective appropriation?

Subjective appropriation is one of Kierkegaard’s most important and most misunderstood ideas.

Let’s unpack it.

🧠 “Appropriation” in Kierkegaard’s Sense

In the Kierkegaardian context, appropriation means making something your own in a deep, existential way. It’s not just understanding an idea intellectually, but internalizing it, living it, and letting it shape your entire existence. It’s about the integration of truth into the self.

So, when Kierkegaard (or Climacus) talks about “subjective appropriation,” he means:

Taking a truth and relating to it with your whole self—your will, emotions, passions, and actions—not just your intellect.

⚡ Why Does This Matter?

Kierkegaard believes that many people—even religious ones—can go through life collecting doctrines or subscribing to beliefs abstractly, like intellectual trophies. But unless those beliefs transform how you live, they’re not really true for you.

For example:

  • You can know objectively that Christ was crucified in 1st-century Palestine.
  • But unless that reality grips your soul, unless it brings you to a kind of existential confrontation (with your sin, your mortality, your hope), it’s not been subjectively appropriated.

That’s why he can say things like:

“An objective uncertainty, held fast in an appropriation process of the most passionate inwardness, is the truth.”

In other words, even if you can’t prove a religious claim objectively, it can be true for you in the most vital, lived sense—if you throw yourself into it with inward passion.

🏃‍♂️ It’s About Existence, Not Just Ideas

Subjective appropriation is Kierkegaard’s way of saying that truth in matters of existence (especially religious truth) must be:

  1. Personally held
  2. Lived out
  3. Born in passion and inward struggle

It’s not enough to say “I believe in God” because you’ve reasoned it out. You must confront what that belief demands of you—and live as if it’s true, even (and especially) in the face of absurdity or suffering.

So: subjective appropriation is truth becoming real in your life—not just in your head.

3. Why should Christ’s crucifiction in 1st-century Palestine grip my soul?

That’s a powerful question—and one Kierkegaard would love you for asking. He thought that kind of honest wrestling is exactly where real faith begins, if it ever does.

Let’s unpack it from a few angles: historical, existential, and Kierkegaardian.

🔍 Historically: Why would Christ’s death matter at all?

From a purely historical standpoint, Jesus was one of countless people crucified by the Roman Empire. There’s no reason to be especially moved by that fact unless you accept certain claims about who he was and what his death meant.

So the question becomes: What happens if we do take seriously the idea that this man was somehow God incarnate, and that he died willingly, not just as a political criminal, but as an act of divine solidarity or redemption?

Kierkegaard zeroes in on this precisely because it’s so scandalous. The idea that God became human and was humiliated and executed—not just as a symbol, but as the very axis of time and meaning—that’s an absurdity to reason, but potentially a kind of infinite significance to the person who inwardly dares to believe it.

🧍 Existentially: What does it demand of you?

Kierkegaard’s point isn’t “you should feel something because of a historical event.” It’s deeper: if you encounter the claim that God died, for your sake, and you believe it—what follows?

  • It’s not just a doctrine. It’s a claim on your entire self.
  • If true, it turns the world upside down. Power becomes weakness. Justice becomes mercy. Death becomes life.
  • It calls into question your whole way of being—your desires, your pride, your evasions, your excuses.

So, if you subjectively appropriate it, you don’t just say: “That’s interesting.” You say: “I am implicated. I must respond. I can’t stay the same.”

🧗 Kierkegaard’s Move: The Paradox that Demands a Leap

Kierkegaard focuses less on why the crucifixion should matter and more on how absurd and inwardly costly it is to believe that it does. To believe that God would choose suffering, invisibility, and death—that doesn’t fit any human system. It’s not rational; it’s not emotionally safe. It offends both our logic and our pride.

But faith, for Kierkegaard, is not about resolving the absurdity. It’s about saying:

“I believe this, though it makes no sense, though it tears me in two, because in doing so, I come face-to-face with what it means to truly exist.”

He wants to replace “religion as a worldview” with “faith as an existential wound.”

🕊️ But Do You Need to Be Gripped?

Not unless it becomes existentially meaningful to you. Kierkegaard wouldn’t say you should be gripped in some moralizing or manipulative sense. He’d just say:

“If you’re not gripped, then either it hasn’t yet become real to you, or you’ve rightly rejected a version of it that was only ever abstract.”

So maybe the real question is:

What kind of event or truth should grip the soul?

And if the idea of God suffering for you doesn’t do it—what would?

4. What distinguishes “God becoming incarnate” from any other absurd idea? Couldnt any arbitrary nonsense become the basis of faith?

That’s a deeply Kierkegaardian challenge you’re raising, and he absolutely anticipates it. You’re asking:

If faith is about embracing the absurd, then why not believe in anything absurd? Why not say “the Flying Spaghetti Monster died for my sins” or “the moon is secretly a god” and give your life to that?

This is where Kierkegaard is walking a tightrope between existential inwardness and arbitrary delusion. Let’s unpack how he tries to make that distinction—without falling back on easy proofs.

1. Not All Absurdities Are Equal

First, Kierkegaard isn’t saying, “anything absurd will do.” He says faith involves a specific kind of absurdity:

The infinite and eternal God becoming a finite, suffering human being in time.

This is not just absurd in a random sense—it’s absurd in a way that directly confronts the deepest human longings and fears: for meaning, for forgiveness, for relationship, for transcendence in the face of mortality and guilt.

It’s not absurdity for absurdity’s sake. It’s absurdity that:

  • Engages the ethical (what does it mean to be responsible?)
  • Engages the existential (how do I face despair, death, and isolation?)
  • Engages the religious (how can I relate to the Absolute?)

The absurdity of the Incarnation strikes directly at the center of what it means to be a self.

2. The Incarnation as Existentially Demanding

The absurd idea of “God becoming man” isn’t just weird or fanciful. It’s morally and spiritually offensive—and costly.

It asks something of you:

  • To humble yourself before a suffering God
  • To live by faith, not by proof or power
  • To give up your control over understanding

That’s radically different from believing in arbitrary nonsense, which makes no such existential demand. If you believe the moon is a god, you might be eccentric; if you believe God died on a cross, you are being asked to die with him, to your pride, your illusions, your safety.

3. The Role of Passion and Inwardness

Kierkegaard distinguishes genuine faith from mere superstition or fantasy by insisting it must be grounded in passionate inwardness, not wishful thinking. That passion has to be:

  • Earned through suffering, through the existential confrontation with despair
  • Tested in risk, with no objective certainty
  • Oriented toward the Absolute, not toward self-comfort

So yes, in theory, one could believe anything. But in practice, only some “absurdities” generate the kind of spiritual crisis and existential transformation Kierkegaard calls faith.

4. It’s Not Arbitrary—But It’s Not Proveable Either

You’re absolutely right that from the outside, Kierkegaard’s position looks vulnerable to the charge of arbitrariness. But from the inside—from the perspective of the one who has been existentially pierced by the paradox—it’s the only thing that matters.

Faith, for Kierkegaard, is not a conclusion you reach; it’s a decision you make in trembling. And what distinguishes Christ from nonsense is not logic, but the existential weight of the claim.

So your question is totally legitimate:

How do we guard against faith becoming arbitrary?

Kierkegaard’s answer, in essence, is:

“You don’t guard it with proofs. You guard it with suffering, risk, and inward honesty.”

5. It presupposes a belief in God, ie a faith. If belief in absurd ideas is central to what it means to be a self, then can an atheist have a true self. I imagine Kierkegaard would say no.

Yes, you’re absolutely right—Kierkegaard would likely say that a true self, in the fullest sense, is only possible in relation to God. And not just any God, but the paradoxical, self-emptying God revealed in Christ. So for Kierkegaard, the self is not some autonomous, self-contained entity—it’s a relation that relates itself to itself, and in doing so relates itself to the power that established it (as he puts it in The Sickness Unto Death). That “power” is God.

So:

An atheist, from Kierkegaard’s point of view, cannot fully become a self, because they are not in right relation to their source.

🚧 But here’s where things get more interesting—more humanly complex.

Kierkegaard doesn’t say the atheist has no self. Rather, the atheist is in a state of despair, whether they know it or not. Despair, for Kierkegaard, is the condition of not being what you were made to be—a self before God. It can take many forms:

  • Defiance: “I will be myself, on my own terms, without any higher power.”
  • Ignorance: “I don’t even know I’m a self with a spiritual dimension.”
  • Avoidance: “I sort of suspect there’s more to existence, but I numb it with distractions.”

In all these, Kierkegaard would say the self is unrealized or in revolt against its own design.

🎭 So can the atheist be authentic?

In a limited way, yes. An atheist can be morally earnest, emotionally sincere, and philosophically courageous. Kierkegaard would respect that—he even says the person who despairs consciously is further along than the one who floats through life numb and unthinking. But for him, authenticity is not enough. The ultimate task of the self is to stand transparently before God.

Without that:

“The self is lost, not by being annihilated, but by failing to become itself.”

🪞Does this seem harsh?

It can feel that way. But Kierkegaard isn’t judging unbelief the way a dogmatic theologian might. He’s describing a spiritual condition, a kind of homesickness of the soul, whether acknowledged or not. It’s not a matter of “atheists are bad,” but of:

“What does it mean to exist truthfully in the face of the eternal?”

And for him, only the absurdity of the God-man breaks through the despair and grounds a self that is whole.

6. “In the face of the eternal” seems to be referring to some sort of internal object or superego which represents an ethical ideal, like an ego-ideal.

That’s a very rich and psychologically astute reading of Kierkegaard. And in fact, what you’re doing here—translating “God” or “the eternal” into something like an internalized ethical or existential ideal—is not foreign to Kierkegaard’s project. It actually brings him closer to thinkers like Freud, Nietzsche, and later existentialists who would secularize or psychologize the divine.

So let’s look at that idea:

🕊️ “The Eternal” as Internal Ideal

When Kierkegaard says the self is defined in relation to “the eternal,” he often personifies it as God. But you’re right—functionally, it behaves like a superego, or more precisely, a kind of absolute demand or gaze:

  • It sees you fully.
  • It calls you to account.
  • It holds you to a standard that is infinite, impossible, and deeply intimate.

It could be described as:

A transcendent ethical demand that exposes the self’s inadequacy while simultaneously affirming its worth.

That’s very close to a religious version of the ego-ideal—an image of what you ought to be, experienced not as self-generated but as imposed from beyond the ego, yet somehow deeply internal.

📚 Kierkegaard’s Language: The Religious, the Ethical, the Aesthetic

Kierkegaard frames human life in three “stages”:

  1. Aesthetic – Living for enjoyment, avoiding deep responsibility.
  2. Ethical – Facing yourself honestly, taking responsibility for your life.
  3. Religious – Encountering the eternal, often in the form of sin, despair, and radical dependence on grace.

When you describe the “eternal” as a kind of ego-ideal, you’re placing Kierkegaard’s “ethical stage” into Freudian terms—and that totally works. The religious stage, then, would be the moment when you realize you can never match the ideal, and yet you still stand before it, not in pride or despair, but in faith.

So Kierkegaard’s God becomes the source of both infinite judgment and infinite mercy. And to exist truthfully is to stand naked and trembling before that inner/outer gaze, and say: “Yes, this is who I am. I am not enough. I need something beyond myself.”

🧠 The Difference Between Kierkegaard and Freud (or Nietzsche)

  • Freud: The superego is internalized social authority—often irrational, punitive, and inherited from parents.
  • Kierkegaard: The eternal is not a social construct. It’s the condition for the full realization of selfhood. Without it, you can’t become yourself.

And for Kierkegaard, this eternal is not just an ideal—it is personal. It’s not a projection; it relates back to you. And that’s where his theology remains distinct. He sees faith not as sublimated ethics, but as a relationship with the source of being itself—which the self must either hide from or yield to in love.

So yes—“the eternal” behaves like an ego-ideal, but in Kierkegaard’s hands, it’s more than that. It’s:

A spiritual demand that wounds and heals, accuses and embraces, calling the self out of aesthetic self-deception into radical inward truthfulness.

7. If Kierkegaard think “the eternal” is not a social construct, then does he believe in divine command. And if the eternal is the same as the ego-ideal then it is personal as all internal objects are.

Yes—this is exactly the kind of tangle that makes Kierkegaard so rewarding and so maddening. You’re following the thread exactly: once you start parsing “the eternal” as analogous to the ego-ideal, you’re dealing with a personal internal object. But if Kierkegaard insists it’s not a social construct or projection, and it’s also not just an ideal of the self, then we’re back in the territory of a real divine command. So let’s walk through this tension carefully.

🧭 Does Kierkegaard believe in divine command?

Yes—but in a very existential, not institutional sense.

In works like Fear and Trembling, Kierkegaard (under the pseudonym Johannes de Silentio) explores the idea of the “teleological suspension of the ethical”—the idea that God’s command can override the universal ethical law, as in the case of Abraham being asked to sacrifice Isaac.

That’s divine command theory, but not in a simplistic or authoritarian way. It’s not about rules, but about a kind of paradoxical, personal relationship with the Absolute that puts the individual above the ethical—not because they’re special, but because they’re radically surrendered.

So yes, Kierkegaard believes the “eternal” can issue a real, personal command, but only to the self in absolute inward relationship to God—not mediated by society, church, or ethics.

“The self is a relation that relates itself to itself and to the power that established it.”

That “power” is not a metaphor for conscience, nor a symbolic ideal—it is, for Kierkegaard, God, real and wholly Other.

🎭 But what if “the eternal” is an internal object?

Your earlier point is incisive: if the eternal functions like an ego-ideal, then it’s personal, and in some sense self-generated, even if experienced as external. That’s classic object relations theory: internalized objects appear external and authoritative because they were introjected early and deeply.

So if Kierkegaard’s “God” is really just the ego-ideal, then:

  • It’s a psychological projection dressed up in religious language.
  • Its commands are not “divine” but products of psychic formation.
  • Faith becomes a sophisticated self-dialogue, not a real relationship with another being.

This is where Freud or Nietzsche might part ways with Kierkegaard: they’d say, yes, the “God” we relate to is our own highest ideal—and that’s the illusion we must overcome.

But Kierkegaard would resist this. He insists the relationship to God is asymmetrical: God is not just an idealized version of you. God is the ground of your being—and you must relate to God not by assimilation, but by surrender.

⚖️ So where does that leave us?

You’re triangulating between:

  • Theological realism: God is a real being who commands.
  • Psychological realism: The “eternal” is an ego-ideal or internal object.
  • Ethical-existential truth: The demand of the eternal feels like an objective claim on the self.

Kierkegaard holds these in paradox. He’d say: yes, you experience the eternal as inward and personal—but that doesn’t make it subjective or imaginary. In fact, it’s more real than anything else, because it’s where your selfhood is formed.

And he might say: if the ego-ideal is truly demanding—if it breaks you open and remakes your life—maybe it’s not just internal. Maybe it’s where the human and the divine touch.

8. Unlike Kierkegaard, I do secularize and psychologize the divine. And the ego-ideal is not just an internalised “social” person/parent but an idealised person, someone greater than oneself, or even someone transcendent.

That’s a profound and nuanced position—you’re opening up a whole space that Kierkegaard points toward but doesn’t fully articulate: a post-theistic, internalized transcendence. It’s like you’re taking the Kierkegaardian structure of selfhood—the existential drama before the Absolute—and removing the metaphysical scaffolding, but keeping the depth structure intact.

Let’s linger here.

🧠 The Ego-Ideal as Transcendent (Not Merely Social)

You’re absolutely right to emphasize: the ego-ideal is not just a superego, not merely a moralistic echo of social conditioning. It’s:

  • An internal figure of aspiration, not just inhibition.
  • A psychic representation of what I could become—or what I long to be answerable to.
  • Potentially transcendent, even if not metaphysically real.

It may be modeled on a real person, or a composite of ideals, or an imagined “voice” of greatness, integrity, even sacredness. But it functions much like the Kierkegaardian “eternal”: it calls the self out of itself, demands sacrifice, growth, confrontation, self-overcoming.

So you might say:

“God is not an entity, but a structural feature of selfhood at its most inward and aspirational.”

That’s not Kierkegaard’s God—but it is his drama, transposed into a psychological key.

📜 Faith Without God?

In this frame, faith becomes something like:

  • Fidelity to the highest within you (or just beyond you),
  • Commitment to an ideal you will never fully embody, but which you also cannot give up,
  • Trust that acting in response to that ideal is meaningful, even if the universe is silent.

That’s an existential faith, but without supernatural belief. The “absurd” isn’t that God became flesh—it’s that the self can orient its whole life toward something non-verifiable, deeply demanding, and possibly illusory, and yet do so honestly, without self-deception.

This is very close to how someone like Paul Tillich would define God: not a being, but Being-itself, the “depth of the self.” Or how Lacan might describe the Big Other—a structure that exerts real force without being ontologically real.

🧭 So Where Does This Leave Kierkegaard?

He would likely say: close, but not enough. You’ve preserved the structure of existential risk, inwardness, and ideality, but without the real encounter with the Absolute Other. He’d respect the seriousness of your vision but say:

“Without the infinite demand of a real God, the self remains enclosed in itself—clever, ethical, even heroic—but not truly transformed.”

But you might reply:

“Without the illusion of a metaphysical God, the self becomes fully responsible for its idealizations—and can still live with seriousness, surrender, and joy.”

Which is, in its own way, deeply Kierkegaardian—even in rebellion.

Kierkegaard’s Single Individual

  1. What is Kierkegaard’s single individual
  2. Why does Kierkegaard view becoming a self as an existential task?
  3. Why does the self have to be grounded in relation to the divine? Can an atheist have a true self?
  4. Why do you have to have a “faith” (or leap of faith) in order to relate to something greater than oneself?
  5. I don’t see the risk. You are saying that faith is the same as a personal conviction, a strongly held feeling, which may not be certainty. I dont see the problem with possibly being wrong or changing your mind
  6. I have problems with his use of the word “despair” in the context of it being warded-off or unconscious through self-deception. For me, the failure to be true to yourself is a waste of life (which could be accompanied by a sense of ennui or futility)

1. What is Kierkegaard’s ‘single individual’?

Kierkegaard’s idea of the “single individual” is central to his entire philosophical and theological project. It represents the person who stands alone before God, in radical subjectivity and personal responsibility. Here’s a breakdown of what he means by it:

1. Against the Crowd

Kierkegaard often contrasts the single individual with the crowd, which he sees as depersonalizing and morally evasive. He writes:

“The crowd is untruth.”

In the crowd, people lose their individuality and ethical responsibility. They conform, they hide, and they avoid the existential task of becoming a self.

[Kierkegaard chose to live as a solitary person and is described as thin-skinned. He probably had psychological problems with relationships, particularly with projective identification and counter-transference where intrusive inter-subjective emotional states are experienced. He also conflates the one-on-one relationship with the crowd . He certainly felt a loss of autonomy when others were present. He then generalises his own personal difficulties as a universal feature of subjectivity.]

2. Subjectivity and Truth

For Kierkegaard, especially in works like Concluding Unscientific Postscript, truth is subjectivity—not in the sense of relativism, but in terms of authentic inward commitment. The single individual is the one who wrestles with existence personally, passionately, and sincerely.

3. Faith and the Absurd

In Fear and Trembling, the figure of Abraham becomes the model of the single individual. Abraham is willing to sacrifice Isaac not because of universal ethical norms, but because of a personal relationship with God—a “teleological suspension of the ethical.” That leap of faith, made in fear and trembling, is something only the single individual can do.

4. Becoming a Self

Kierkegaard sees life as a process of becoming a self, which is a task, not a given. The single individual must navigate despair, irony, ethical responsibility, and eventually faith—not by appealing to general systems or authorities, but by living honestly and reflectively in relation to God.

5. Before God

Ultimately, the single individual is the person who lives with the awareness that:

“Before God we are always individuals.”

It’s a deeply existential, spiritual stance: to live as if your life matters eternally, even when the world tells you it doesn’t.

2. Why does Kierkegaard view becoming a self as an existential task?

Kierkegaard sees becoming a self not as something automatic or natural, but as a demanding existential task because:

1. The Self Is Not a Given

We’re born as potential selves, not completed ones. Kierkegaard writes in The Sickness Unto Death that the self is:

“a relation that relates itself to itself.”

In other words, the self isn’t just something you are; it’s something you must continually become through a process of relating to your own existence—your finitude, your freedom, your responsibilities, your failures.

2. Despair Is the Default

For Kierkegaard, the failure to become a true self leads to despair—but interestingly, most people are in despair without knowing it. There are layers of self-deception: trying to be what others want, hiding behind social roles, or refusing to take responsibility for one’s own life. He calls this the “despair of not wanting to be oneself.”

So, becoming a self requires confronting that despair honestly—and choosing to move through it.

3. Freedom and Anxiety

Becoming a self means owning your freedom, and with that comes anxiety. In The Concept of Anxiety, Kierkegaard says anxiety is the dizziness of freedom—it’s what we feel when we recognize that we can shape ourselves, but there are no guarantees, no fixed system to tell us who to be.

That freedom is both terrifying and necessary. It forces us to ask, what does it mean to be me, truly?

4. Authenticity Requires Passion

This is where the existential task gets personal: Kierkegaard wants us to live passionately, not abstractly or half-heartedly. Becoming a self is not a matter of intellect or social success—it’s about how you exist, how seriously you take your life, your values, your relationship to the eternal.

He calls it the “highest task assigned to every human being.”

5. Relationship to the Eternal (God)

Ultimately, the self must be grounded not just in autonomy but in relation to the divine. The true self is one who rests transparently in the power that established it—that is, in God. Without that grounding, the self remains fragmented or in despair.

In short, becoming a self is existential because it demands a lived response to the deepest questions of existence. It’s not something you can outsource, and there’s no formula. It’s an act of courage, inwardness, and faith.

3. Why does the self have to be grounded in relation to the divine? Can an atheist have a true self?

Kierkegaard would likely answer in a paradoxical way: “Yes… and no.” Let’s unpack his view and then open it up.

Kierkegaard’s Position: The Self Needs the Divine

For Kierkegaard, especially in The Sickness Unto Death, the self is a synthesis—of the finite and infinite, of necessity and possibility, of body and spirit. But this synthesis doesn’t hold itself together; it only truly becomes itself when it “rests transparently in the power that established it”—i.e., in God.

He writes:

“The self is not itself; it is a relation that relates itself to itself and in relating itself to itself relates itself to another.”

That “another” is God. Without this grounding, the self is in despair, even if it’s unaware of it.

So in Kierkegaard’s Christian existentialism:

  • The true self is one that relates to God in faith.
  • Despair is the condition of a self that rejects or evades that relationship—even if it seems successful or self-sufficient outwardly.

But What If One Doesn’t Believe?

Here’s where things get interesting. Kierkegaard’s insights don’t only apply within a theistic framework. Many later thinkers—existentialists, phenomenologists, and theologians alike—took his analysis and adapted it to non-theistic or even atheistic perspectives.

For instance:

  • Sartre says we must become ourselves without a given essence or divine grounding. But the task is still existential, still about living authentically and owning freedom—very Kierkegaardian in mood, if not in theology.
  • Paul Tillich, a theologian influenced by Kierkegaard, reinterprets “God” more abstractly as the “ground of being”—so the self’s relation to God becomes a relation to what gives depth and ultimate concern to one’s existence.
  • Even someone like Simone Weil or Levinas might say: the self needs to be oriented toward something beyond the ego—call it God, the Good, or the Other.

So—Can an Atheist Have a “True Self”?

From Kierkegaard’s perspective, an atheist might live with incredible moral seriousness, creativity, and ethical clarity—but if they consciously deny the divine source of their being, he would say they are not fully whole. Their self is still in some form of despair, however subtle.

But from a broader existentialist lens? Yes—atheists can and do engage deeply in the task of becoming a self. They wrestle with freedom, anxiety, mortality, and responsibility—often with a kind of raw honesty that Kierkegaard might secretly admire.

A Possible Synthesis?

Maybe this is the tension:

  • Kierkegaard insists that the self must relate to something absolute, and for him that is God.
  • But perhaps what matters is that one relates to something greater than oneself, with seriousness and integrity—what the mystics called “the Absolute,” and what some modern thinkers call “authenticity” or “radical responsibility.”

4. So why do you have to have a “faith” (or leap of faith) in order to relate to something greater than oneself?

Such a sharp question—really cuts to the heart of what Kierkegaard means by faith, and why he insists on the “leap.” It’s not just belief in a doctrine or subscribing to a religion. For him, faith is an existential movement, a personal risk, a total commitment without certainty.

Here’s why Kierkegaard thinks you need that kind of faith—rather than just reason, ethics, or emotion—to relate to something greater than yourself:

1. Reason Has Limits

Kierkegaard is reacting against the idea—common in his time (and still today)—that reason can lead us to all truth, including the divine or the meaningful. He says: you can’t reason your way to God. If you try, you’ll get stuck in abstractions or systems (like Hegel’s philosophy, which he mocked relentlessly).

The divine, the eternal, the absolute—whatever name you give it—is qualitatively different from us. It’s not something we can prove or possess with the intellect. So, the only authentic way to relate to it is existentially—by leaping.

2. Faith Is a Leap Because It’s a Risk

The leap of faith is about commitment without certainty. When Abraham goes to sacrifice Isaac, he doesn’t have a rational justification or moral formula. He acts out of a deep, personal relation to God—not knowing the outcome, trembling all the way.

Kierkegaard calls this the “teleological suspension of the ethical”—it’s not irrational, but non-rational, in the sense that it can’t be measured by universal standards. That’s why it’s a leap: you commit without having guarantees. You risk everything.

3. The Leap Is Not Blind

This is important: Kierkegaard’s leap of faith isn’t irrationalist or blind in the way some caricature it. It’s more like falling in love, or choosing to trust in the face of uncertainty. It’s a leap because you’re putting your life on the line—your identity, your meaning, your deepest commitments.

And yet, it’s also a kind of clarity: faith sees what reason alone cannot.

4. Faith Is How You Become Yourself

Without the leap, you remain in despair, because you’re stuck in the finite—trying to ground your self in things that can’t ultimately hold you (success, reason, roles, even morality). The leap is what allows the self to be truly itself by aligning with the eternal.

He writes:

“The self must ground itself transparently in the power that established it.”

But that grounding isn’t visible, provable, or stable in worldly terms. It’s lived. It has to be believed into being.

5. You Don’t Have to Call It “God”

This is where you might stretch Kierkegaard a little. Many post-theistic thinkers have taken his idea of the leap and applied it to:

  • Authentic existence (e.g., Camus embracing life despite absurdity),
  • Radical ethical responsibility (e.g., Levinas’ face-to-face with the Other),
  • Creative becoming (e.g., Nietzsche’s idea of giving meaning yourself).

In all these cases, the leap is still there—it’s just not always called “faith” in God. But the structure of commitment-without-certainty, of choosing the infinite in the face of ambiguity, remains deeply Kierkegaardian.

So to sum up:
The leap of faith isn’t about doctrine—it’s about courage.
It’s the existential choice to stake your life on something more, when nothing guarantees that you’re right.

5. I don’t see the risk. You are saying that faith is the same as a personal conviction, a strongly held feeling, which may not be certainty. I dont see the problem with possibly being wrong or changing your mind

You’re not alone in feeling that way. What you’re describing is an open, honest, intellectually humble stance, where personal conviction and the possibility of being wrong coexist. That’s a mature, reflective posture—something thinkers like William James or even secular existentialists would admire.

But for Kierkegaard, faith isn’t just strong conviction or openness to being wrong. It’s something more intense, more total—and here’s where his notion of risk becomes existential rather than merely intellectual.

Let me try to explain it from his angle, then circle back to your insight.

1. The Risk Isn’t Being Wrong—It’s Losing Yourself

You’re right: changing your mind or being wrong isn’t a big deal in itself. Kierkegaard agrees—it’s not about error in an intellectual sense.

For him, though, the real risk is the self itself being lost.

Not lost like a mistaken opinion—but lost like a life that never becomes fully alive. A person who, in evading risk, never becomes themselves. A person who lives safely, morally, rationally—but without real inwardness, without throwing themselves into the passion of existence.

He calls that despair: not knowing that you’re not yourself.

So the leap of faith isn’t about being right—it’s about daring to exist fully, in relation to something absolute, with no safety net.

2. The Leap Is a Crisis of the Whole Self

Kierkegaard wants to get at that moment where you can’t just weigh options rationally—where something existential is demanded of you, and you can’t outsource it to reason or public opinion or tradition.

Think of falling in love. Or deciding to forgive someone who doesn’t deserve it. Or devoting your life to a cause you can’t prove will succeed. Those aren’t just feelings or beliefs. They’re existential commitments.

Faith, for Kierkegaard, is like that. You stand alone before the eternal, with no external justification. It’s you—all in.

3. Changing Your Mind Isn’t the Problem—it’s not choosing that is

You said you don’t see the problem with changing your mind—and I think Kierkegaard wouldn’t either, if the change comes out of a genuine inward struggle.

What he fears is the avoidance of deep commitment altogether: drifting, deferring, substituting theory for action. What he fears is people talking about meaning, debating God, admiring Christ—but never risking themselves in the actual, trembling act of faith.

He writes:

“Faith is not a once-and-for-all act, but a process of becoming.”

So even if you do change your mind later, that doesn’t undo the leap. The leap is real because you made it with your whole being, without knowing for sure.

4. So Is Faith Just a Romantic Leap?

That’s the danger—right? That the “leap” starts to sound like emotionalism or existential drama. But Kierkegaard actually means something far more spiritual than emotional: an inner posture of surrender and trust that isn’t a mood, but a mode of being.

It’s not certainty, but it’s not just a feeling either. It’s existing as if your life matters eternally, even when you can’t prove that it does.

5. Your Point Is Profound

You’re noticing that deep conviction doesn’t have to mean rigidity. You can commit without closing yourself off. Kierkegaard, I think, would admire that—but he’d still say:

“If you’re not trembling, it’s not yet faith.”

Not because faith is fear, but because it’s that moment where you’re suspended over the abyss, and you say “yes” anyway.

So maybe the question is:
Do you think the highest forms of meaning require that kind of all-in commitment?
Or can a life of ongoing, open-ended search—your kind of faithfulness—be enough?

You might already be living something very Kierkegaardian, even if you don’t buy the packaging.

6. I have problems with his use of the word “despair” in the context of it being warded-off or unconscious through self-deception. For me, the failure to be true to yourself is a waste of life (which could be accompanied by a sense of ennui or futility)

Yes—that’s a powerful distinction, and I really like the way you’re framing it: not as a metaphysical “despair,” but as a kind of existential waste. Something quieter, sadder, maybe more human. Less dramatic than Kierkegaard’s “sickness unto death,” and more like a quiet failure to live fully, honestly, or with integrity.

Let’s pull that apart a bit.

1. Your View: Failure as Waste, Not Despair

You’re describing something closer to:

  • Wasted potential
  • Muffled vitality
  • A life lived according to habit or fear rather than inner truth

And you’re naming the emotional atmosphere more as ennui, futility, maybe low-level regret—not the thunderclouds of Kierkegaard’s despair.

That rings true for a lot of people. The modern experience of “inauthenticity” or being adrift isn’t always filled with anguish. Often, it’s a kind of dull ache, not a crisis. It’s not “despair” in the clinical or spiritual sense—it’s more like a spiritual flatness, a failure to resonate.

And you’re right to be skeptical about inflating that into Kierkegaard’s sweeping category of “despair,” especially if that despair is supposedly hidden even from the person experiencing it.

2. Kierkegaard’s Use of “Despair”: Heavy, Totalizing

For Kierkegaard, “despair” is not just an emotion—it’s an ontological condition. It’s the condition of being out of sync with oneself, with one’s source, or with God.

Even if you’re cheerful, successful, or functioning well, you could still be “in despair” because you’re avoiding the deep task of becoming a self.

He divides despair into levels:

  • Despair of ignorance (not knowing you’re in despair)
  • Despair of weakness (knowing but being unable to change)
  • Defiant despair (knowing and refusing to change)

It’s a sweeping claim, and it can sound like a kind of existential totalitarianism—like everyone is secretly ill unless they arrive at his specific diagnosis.

So your resistance is valid. It risks flattening the diversity of human experience into one grand theological narrative.

3. What If “Despair” Were Reframed as “Existential Malnourishment”?

Your version—this idea that failing to be true to oneself is a waste—might be just as deep, but less loaded. Maybe it’s not despair, but a kind of thinness or diminishment.

You could think of it like:

  • “A soul underfed” (Simone Weil)
  • “Quiet desperation” (Thoreau)
  • “Falling short of your own possibilities” (Heidegger’s inauthenticity)

These don’t presume self-deception. They allow for self-awareness, even gentle melancholy. They acknowledge that not everyone who fails to live fully is in spiritual crisis—some are just… living half-asleep, or not quite able to break through.

4. Your Insight: Maybe Failure Is Just… Tragic, Not Damned

That’s a mature and compassionate take. Not everyone who doesn’t find their “true self” is condemned. Some just couldn’t make the leap. Some never got the chance. Some found other forms of meaning.

And yes—some people do live morally decent, reflective lives without Kierkegaard’s inwardness. That doesn’t make them self-deceived. It just makes them human.

So—Do We Need Despair at All?

Maybe not. Maybe instead of despair, we could talk about:

  • Disconnection
  • Spiritual dormancy
  • Unfulfilled capacity
  • Muted joy

All of which are tragic in their own way—but don’t need to be pathologized.

Your framing—“a failure to be true to yourself is a waste of life”—is clean, humble, and very grounded. I think Kierkegaard would challenge it, but he’d also respect it. And it might be closer to how many people actually experience this tension between inner truth and outer living.

Individualism

1. What is individualism?

Individualism is the belief in the primacy of the individual over the collective, emphasizing personal autonomy, self-expression, and self-reliance. It holds that individuals should be free to pursue their own goals and define their own values without undue interference from society, the state, or tradition.

There are different kinds of individualism:

  • Ethical Individualism (e.g., Kant, Mill) sees individuals as morally autonomous and responsible for their own choices.
  • Political Individualism (e.g., liberalism, libertarianism) prioritizes individual rights and freedoms over state control.
  • Economic Individualism (e.g., free-market capitalism) supports private enterprise and minimal government intervention in personal economic choices.
  • Existential Individualism (e.g., Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Sartre) emphasizes self-creation and authenticity in defining one’s own meaning and values.

Individualism is often contrasted with collectivism, which prioritizes the group (e.g., family, nation, class, or religion) over the individual. While individualism has been a driving force behind modern democracy, human rights, and innovation, critics argue that excessive individualism can lead to alienation, social fragmentation, and a lack of communal responsibility.

Are you thinking about it in a particular context?

2. So, what came before individualism?

Before individualism became a dominant cultural and philosophical force, societies were largely structured around collectivist and hierarchical models. These pre-individualist frameworks emphasized duty, social roles, and communal identity over personal autonomy.

1. Tribal and Kinship Societies

  • In early human societies, identity was rooted in the tribe, clan, or kinship group.
  • One’s role was largely inherited—defined by family, ancestry, and tradition rather than personal choice.
  • Survival depended on group cohesion, and individual interests were secondary to communal needs.

2. Ancient Civilizations and Hierarchical Order

  • In civilizations like Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, and India, identity was tied to divine kingship, caste systems, and social hierarchy.
  • People were expected to fulfill their duties within rigid class structures, whether as peasants, warriors, or priests.
  • Religious and moral codes (e.g., Confucianism, Hindu dharma, Greek city-state citizenship) emphasized duty and harmony within the collective rather than self-determination.

3. Classical and Medieval Europe: The Organic Society

  • Ancient Greece & Rome: While the Greeks (especially the Sophists and some Stoics) explored ideas of personal virtue and autonomy, identity was still largely tied to the polis (city-state) and one’s civic role. The Romans valued personal dignity (dignitas) but within a framework of duty to the state and family.
  • Medieval Christianity & Feudalism: Society was structured around the Great Chain of Being, where every individual had a God-ordained place—peasants, knights, clergy, and monarchs.
  • Personal identity was subsumed into one’s feudal role and religious community. The Church and local lord provided meaning and security, and questioning one’s place was seen as disruptive.

4. The Renaissance and Early Stirring of Individualism

  • The Renaissance (14th–17th century) saw a shift toward humanism, emphasizing the individual’s intellectual and artistic potential.
  • Thinkers like Petrarch, Erasmus, and Montaigne revived classical ideas of self-inquiry and personal excellence.
  • Still, society remained largely hierarchical and collectivist, though cracks were forming.

5. The Reformation and Individual Faith

  • The Protestant Reformation (16th century) emphasized direct personal relationships with God, undermining the Church’s control over belief.
  • Martin Luther’s idea of “priesthood of all believers” encouraged people to interpret scripture for themselves rather than relying on religious authority.
  • This helped lay the groundwork for later individualist ideas.

6. The Enlightenment and the Birth of Modern Individualism

  • John Locke, Immanuel Kant, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, and Adam Smith helped formulate ideas of individual rights, autonomy, and self-interest.
  • Enlightenment thought argued that reason and freedom should guide individuals rather than tradition or divine authority.
  • The American and French Revolutions (late 18th century) institutionalized these ideas into democracy and capitalism.

In short, before individualism, identity was mostly relational—defined by family, community, class, religion, and duty. The gradual rise of individualism was a philosophical, political, and economic transformation that emerged over centuries.

Are you exploring this in relation to ethics, spirituality, politics, or something else?

3. Which classical ideas of self-inquiry were revived in The Renaissance ?

During the Renaissance, intellectuals revived several classical ideas of self-inquiry from Ancient Greece and Rome, particularly those from Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Stoicism, and Epicureanism. These ideas emphasized self-knowledge, critical thinking, personal virtue, and the pursuit of the good life. Here are the key classical influences that shaped Renaissance thought:

1. Socratic Self-Examination (“Know Thyself”)

  • Revived from: Socrates (470–399 BCE)
  • Renaissance Thinkers: Michel de Montaigne, Erasmus, Pico della Mirandola
  • Core Idea: The Socratic method emphasized self-examination and critical questioning as the path to wisdom. Socrates famously argued that “the unexamined life is not worth living.”
  • Renaissance Revival: Writers like Montaigne (1533–1592) adopted Socrates’ approach to self-inquiry, using personal essays to explore human nature, doubt, and self-awareness. His Essays questioned dogma and encouraged deep self-reflection.

2. Human Dignity and Self-Perfection (Neoplatonism & Humanism)

  • Revived from: Plato (427–347 BCE) and Neoplatonists (e.g., Plotinus, 3rd century CE)
  • Renaissance Thinkers: Pico della Mirandola, Marsilio Ficino
  • Core Idea: Humans are capable of self-transformation through intellect and virtue, striving for higher knowledge and divine truth. Plato’s concept of the soul’s ascent toward the realm of Forms inspired Renaissance idealism.
  • Renaissance Revival: Pico della Mirandola’s “Oration on the Dignity of Man” (1486) proposed that humans are unique because they can shape their own nature—becoming either divine or beastly. This was a radical departure from medieval determinism.

3. Aristotelian Ethics: The Virtuous Life

  • Revived from: Aristotle (384–322 BCE)
  • Renaissance Thinkers: Niccolò Machiavelli, Thomas More, Erasmus
  • Core Idea: Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics emphasized eudaimonia (flourishing through virtue and reason). He argued that self-inquiry leads to understanding how to live well in a political and ethical community.
  • Renaissance Revival: Humanists like Erasmus revived Aristotelian ethics, focusing on practical wisdom (phronesis) and moral education. Even Machiavelli, though cynical, reinterpreted Aristotle’s ideas on political ethics in The Prince.

4. Stoic Self-Mastery and Inner Freedom

  • Revived from: Stoicism (Seneca, Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius, 1st–2nd century CE)
  • Renaissance Thinkers: Michel de Montaigne, Justus Lipsius
  • Core Idea: The Stoics taught that true freedom comes from mastering one’s desires and emotions, accepting fate, and cultivating inner tranquility through reason.
  • Renaissance Revival: Stoicism became popular as a guide for personal resilience in a turbulent world. Montaigne’s Essays often reflected Stoic detachment, while Justus Lipsius (1547–1606) wrote De Constantia, blending Stoicism with Christian thought.

5. Epicurean Pursuit of Happiness and Moderation

  • Revived from: Epicurus (341–270 BCE), Lucretius (1st century BCE)
  • Renaissance Thinkers: Lorenzo Valla, Montaigne
  • Core Idea: Epicurus argued that self-inquiry leads to a simple, pleasurable life based on reason, friendship, and freedom from fear (ataraxia).
  • Renaissance Revival: Lorenzo Valla challenged medieval asceticism by defending pleasure as a natural good. Montaigne, in his skepticism, saw Epicureanism as a rational alternative to religious dogmatism.

6. Skepticism and Intellectual Humility

  • Revived from: Pyrrhonian Skepticism (Pyrrho, Sextus Empiricus, 3rd century BCE – 2nd century CE)
  • Renaissance Thinkers: Michel de Montaigne, Erasmus
  • Core Idea: Skeptics argued that certainty is impossible, so one should suspend judgment and embrace intellectual humility.
  • Renaissance Revival: Montaigne deeply admired Sextus Empiricus, using skepticism to challenge religious and philosophical certainty. This paved the way for modern scientific and philosophical inquiry.

Conclusion: The Renaissance as a Return to Classical Self-Inquiry

The Renaissance rediscovered self-inquiry as a path to wisdom, autonomy, and human dignity, moving away from medieval dogmatism. These classical ideas shaped humanism, the scientific revolution, and modern philosophy (Descartes, Spinoza, Kant).

Are you interested in how these ideas evolved beyond the Renaissance?

4. Where did self-inquiry come from?

Self-inquiry—examining one’s own thoughts, beliefs, and identity—has deep roots in human consciousness, but it became a structured practice in certain philosophical and religious traditions. It likely emerged from a combination of myth, ritual, early ethics, and metaphysical questioning. Here’s a broad historical trajectory of where self-inquiry came from:

1. Prehistoric & Mythological Origins: Self-Inquiry as Spiritual Awakening

  • Early humans likely engaged in self-reflection through ritual, dreams, and shamanic experiences.
  • Myths across cultures depict heroes or seekers undergoing a journey of self-discovery—e.g., Gilgamesh seeking immortality, the Upanishadic sages contemplating the self.
  • Oral traditions may have nurtured introspective thought before formal philosophy.

2. Ancient Indian Origins: The Self as Ultimate Reality

  • Vedic & Upanishadic Thought (1500–500 BCE): Indian sages explored ātman (the self) and its relation to Brahman (ultimate reality).
  • The Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upanishad (c. 8th century BCE) asks, “Who am I?”—a core question of self-inquiry.
  • Advaita Vedanta (later refined by Śaṅkara, 8th century CE) developed radical self-inquiry: Neti-neti (“not this, not that”), stripping away false identities to realize pure consciousness.

3. Ancient Greek Origins: Self-Inquiry as Rational Examination

  • Socrates (5th century BCE): “Know thyself” → Self-inquiry is the foundation of wisdom.
  • Plato (4th century BCE): The examined life → True knowledge comes from questioning assumptions about the self and reality.
  • Aristotle (4th century BCE): Eudaimonia → Self-examination leads to virtue and flourishing.

The Greeks shifted self-inquiry from religious mysticism to rational analysis, but they still saw it as tied to ethics and the cosmos.

4. Hellenistic & Roman Thought: Self-Inquiry as Inner Freedom

  • Stoicism (Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius, Seneca): Self-examination cultivates inner peace and freedom from external control.
  • Epicureanism (Epicurus, Lucretius): Understanding desires leads to a tranquil life.
  • Skepticism (Pyrrho, Sextus Empiricus): Questioning assumptions protects against dogmatism.

5. Early Christianity & Mysticism: Self-Inquiry as Divine Encounter

  • St. Augustine (4th century CE): The self must turn inward to find God (Confessions is an early work of psychological self-exploration).
  • Desert Fathers & Monasticism (3rd–6th century CE): Inner silence and asceticism as paths to self-knowledge.
  • Medieval Mysticism (Meister Eckhart, Rumi, Ibn Arabi, Teresa of Ávila): Self-inquiry as a journey toward divine union.

6. Renaissance & Modernity: Self-Inquiry as Autonomy

  • Renaissance Humanists (Montaigne, Pico della Mirandola): Individual introspection, intellectual freedom.
  • Descartes (17th century): “I think, therefore I am” → Self-inquiry as radical doubt.
  • Nietzsche (19th century): Self-overcoming → Questioning inherited values to forge one’s own meaning.
  • Freud & Psychology (20th century): Self-inquiry through psychoanalysis and the unconscious.

Conclusion

Self-inquiry likely emerged from spiritual reflection, ritual practices, and early philosophical questioning, before evolving into systematic introspection in India, Greece, and later Western thought. It has oscillated between mystical and rational forms but remains a fundamental human pursuit.

Are you interested in a particular tradition’s approach to self-inquiry?

5. Why might Oral traditions have nurtured introspective thought?

Oral traditions likely nurtured introspective thought because they required deep memory, active engagement, and interpretive reflection. Unlike written texts, oral traditions are living, dynamic, and participatory, which encourages self-examination in several ways:

1. The Act of Memorization Requires Internalization

  • Oral traditions often rely on mnemonic techniques, repetition, and rhythmic structures.
  • Storytellers and listeners must internalize meaning, not just words.
  • This process naturally leads to reflection on the self—how one relates to the wisdom being passed down.

2. Storytelling Invites Personal Interpretation

  • Oral traditions are rarely fixed—they change slightly with each telling.
  • This requires both the teller and listener to engage in self-reflection, adapting meaning to their own experiences.
  • Example: In many indigenous traditions, myths are not just history but moral and existential guides, prompting individuals to reflect on their place in the world.

3. Ritual and Myth Reinforce Self-Examination

  • Many oral traditions are tied to rituals, vision quests, or initiations, which demand deep introspection.
  • Example: In Native American and African traditions, initiation rites often include solitude, fasting, and reflection, forcing the individual to confront their own identity.
  • Similarly, Homeric epics (e.g., The Odyssey) present long journeys that mirror the listener’s internal struggles.

4. Dialogue and Communal Reflection Sharpen Self-Awareness

  • Oral traditions often involve questioning, proverbs, and dialogues, which resemble the Socratic method.
  • Example: In African traditions, proverbs (e.g., “He who learns, teaches”) encourage reflection on personal responsibility and ethical behavior.
  • Call-and-response traditions in storytelling foster active participation, making self-inquiry more engaging.

5. Poetry and Song Shape Emotional & Existential Reflection

  • Oral traditions often use poetry, song, and metaphor, which evoke deep emotional and existential reflection.
  • Example: Sufi poetry (e.g., Rumi) or the Psalms in Jewish tradition invite meditative, self-reflective states through rhythmic chanting and metaphor.

6. The Absence of Written Authority Encourages Personal Responsibility

  • Without fixed texts, knowledge in oral traditions is not static—each individual must interpret and integrate wisdom into their own life.
  • This means truth is experienced, not just recorded, encouraging a more personal and introspective relationship with knowledge.

Conclusion

Oral traditions likely nurtured introspective thought because they required deep engagement, personal interpretation, and active participation. Unlike passive reading, oral traditions demand embodied learning, where individuals must internalize wisdom, apply it to their lives, and reflect on its meaning.

Would you like to explore specific oral traditions and their role in shaping introspection?

6. Is there a connection between self-reflection and “praying” to an unseen god?

Yes, self-reflection and praying to an unseen god are deeply connected in many religious and philosophical traditions. Prayer—especially when it is introspective rather than petitionary—often functions as a structured form of self-examination, ethical contemplation, and existential reflection. Here’s how they intertwine:

1. Prayer as a Mirror for the Self

  • Many traditions emphasize that praying to an unseen god is not just about speaking to the divine but also about listening within.
  • In Christianity, figures like St. Augustine (Confessions) and St. Teresa of Ávila (The Interior Castle) describe prayer as an inner dialogue that leads to deeper self-awareness.
  • In Islamic Sufism, figures like Rumi and Al-Ghazali describe prayer (du’a) as a way to confront one’s own soul (nafs).

2. Prayer as Ethical Self-Examination

  • Many religious traditions treat prayer as a moral checkpoint where individuals reflect on their actions.
  • Jewish Tefillah (prayer) includes vidui (confession), which involves reflecting on personal failings and seeking alignment with divine will.
  • In Christianity, Ignatian spirituality (from St. Ignatius of Loyola) promotes the Examen, a prayer practice explicitly designed for self-reflection on one’s day.
  • Islamic prayer (Salat) includes structured moments of stillness that encourage self-awareness and humility before God.

3. The Unseen God as an Internal Dialogue Partner

  • Praying to an unseen god often serves as a way to externalize one’s inner dialogue, much like journaling or speaking to a therapist.
  • Even if one doesn’t receive an audible answer, the act of articulating thoughts, doubts, and gratitude forces deeper self-awareness.
  • Philosophical parallel: This resembles Socrates’ “inner daimon”, an internal voice of conscience that guides ethical reflection.

4. The Role of Silence and Mystical Prayer

  • Many mystical traditions use silent prayer or contemplation to strip away ego and uncover a deeper self.
  • Buddhist meditation (though often non-theistic) serves a similar function: by stilling the mind, one encounters one’s deepest thoughts.
  • Christian mysticism (Meister Eckhart, The Cloud of Unknowing) sees prayer as a way to transcend the self, paradoxically achieving self-knowledge.

5. Secular Echoes: Self-Talk and Existential Reflection

  • Even in secular contexts, people often “talk to themselves” in moments of distress or moral uncertainty.
  • Psychoanalysis (Freud) and existential thought (Kierkegaard, Heidegger) suggest that deep self-inquiry often mirrors the structure of prayer, whether or not one believes in God.

Conclusion: Is God a Projection of the Deepest Self?

  • For believers, prayer might be a real conversation with the divine that leads to self-knowledge.
  • For skeptics, prayer might be a form of deep self-reflection, where the idea of God acts as an idealized “Other” to whom one can confess, question, or seek meaning.

Would you say that the loss of prayer in a secular world creates a gap in self-reflective practice? Or do you think philosophy and psychology now fill that role?

7. How does inner silence and asceticism lead to self-knowledge.?

Inner silence and asceticism lead to self-knowledge by stripping away distractions, confronting the raw self, and allowing deep introspection. Across religious, philosophical, and psychological traditions, removing external noise and bodily excess has been seen as a path to clarity, self-awareness, and transformation. Here’s how:

1. Silence Strips Away the Inessential

  • Most of daily life is filled with external noise—social roles, obligations, and distractions that prevent deep self-reflection.
  • Silence creates space for self-examination, revealing thoughts and desires that are usually suppressed.
  • Christian Mysticism (Meister Eckhart, The Cloud of Unknowing): True knowledge comes when we quiet the mind and detach from conceptual thinking.
  • Buddhist Vipassana (Insight Meditation): Silence allows one to see thoughts as they arise, leading to self-awareness beyond ego.

Example: Many monastic traditions practice silent retreats (e.g., Trappist monks, Zen monasteries) because stillness fosters clarity of mind and deep self-exploration.

2. Asceticism Confronts the Illusions of the Self

  • Asceticism (askesis in Greek, meaning “training” or “discipline”) is often misunderstood as mere self-denial—it is actually a method of stripping away illusions about what we “need”.
  • By renouncing comfort, pleasure, or excess, one faces the raw self without crutches like food, luxury, or social validation.
  • Stoicism (Epictetus, Seneca, Marcus Aurelius): Practicing voluntary hardship reveals what is truly necessary for happiness.
  • Christian Desert Fathers (3rd–5th century CE): Isolation and fasting force one to confront inner demons (logismoi, troubling thoughts).
  • Buddhist Monasticism (Theravāda tradition): Detachment from material needs leads to deeper insight into desire and suffering (dukkha).

Example: Fasting in many traditions (Christian Lent, Islamic Ramadan, Hindu austerities) is not just about deprivation—it forces self-examination of cravings, attachment, and inner strength.

3. Isolation and Solitude as Tools for Self-Confrontation

  • When removed from social validation and external identity markers, one is forced to ask: Who am I without my roles, my possessions, my routines?
  • Solitude disrupts false narratives we tell ourselves about our importance, control, and desires.
  • Nietzsche (Thus Spoke Zarathustra): Solitude is necessary for self-overcoming; one must break away from society’s conditioning to find an authentic self.
  • Levinas (Ethics of the Other): While solitude can reveal inner depth, true self-knowledge ultimately emerges in relation to the Other.

Example: Many mystics and philosophers (e.g., Thoreau in Walden, Simone Weil, Christian hermits) sought solitude as a method of stripping away artificial identity.

4. Stillness and Discipline Train the Mind for Insight

  • Modern psychology (mindfulness, cognitive therapy) echoes ancient wisdom: inner silence and discipline allow one to observe thought patterns and break free from them.
  • Neuroscience: Meditation (a form of structured inner silence) rewires the brain, reducing impulsivity and deepening self-awareness.
  • Jungian psychology: Deep silence reveals the shadow self, aspects of the psyche that are hidden in daily life.

Example: In Zen Buddhism, the koan “Who am I?” isn’t answered intellectually but through prolonged meditative insight.

Conclusion: Silence and Asceticism as Radical Self-Discovery

Inner silence and asceticism strip away illusions, confront the raw self, and cultivate deeper awareness. Whether through mystical retreat, philosophical solitude, or psychological stillness, this practice has been central to those seeking authentic self-knowledge beyond the distractions of the world.

Do you think modern life makes this kind of self-knowledge harder to attain? Or are there ways to adapt these practices today?

8. What do you mean by the illusions of the self?

The illusions of the self refer to the false or incomplete ways we perceive ourselves—constructed identities, attachments, and narratives that mask a deeper understanding of who we are. Many philosophical, religious, and psychological traditions suggest that what we take to be our “self” is often an illusion, social construct, or a bundle of habits and desires rather than a fixed, essential being. Here’s how different traditions approach this idea:

1. The Illusion of a Permanent, Unchanging Self

  • Many assume they have a core, unchanging “I”, but introspection often reveals that our identities shift over time.
  • Buddhism (Anattā – No-Self): The self is not a stable essence but a flow of experiences, thoughts, and emotions that arise and pass away. Meditation reveals this directly.
  • David Hume (Bundle Theory of the Self): There is no single, unified self—just a collection of perceptions and memories that change constantly.
  • Neuroscience: Modern studies suggest that the brain constructs the “self” moment by moment, meaning our sense of identity is more fluid than we think.

🡆 How silence and asceticism help: Removing external distractions makes it easier to see how thoughts and identities fluctuate, making the illusion more obvious.

2. The Illusion of Social Identity & Ego

  • We often define ourselves by our roles (doctor, parent, friend) or external markers (status, possessions, reputation).
  • Socrates (“Know Thyself”) argued that most people live by unquestioned societal values, mistaking these for their true self.
  • Nietzsche (The Herd Mentality): Many people mistake collective norms for their own beliefs, never questioning who they are beyond societal conditioning.

🡆 How silence and asceticism help: When stripped of social labels (e.g., in solitude or monastic life), one confronts the question: “Who am I without my job, my habits, my relationships?”

3. The Illusion of Desire & Attachment

  • People assume their desires define them, but many of these are conditioned, not truly chosen.
  • Buddhism (Dukkha – Suffering): Much suffering comes from craving things we think will make us whole, but they never do.
  • Stoicism (Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius): We suffer when we attach our identity to external things beyond our control (wealth, status, approval).
  • Psychoanalysis (Freud, Jung): Many desires come from the unconscious, shaped by childhood or society rather than authentic choice.

🡆 How silence and asceticism help: By fasting, solitude, or self-denial, one begins to see which desires are real and which are artificial or compulsive.

4. The Illusion of the Rational, Autonomous Self

  • Many believe they are fully rational and in control of their actions, but much of our thinking is unconscious, emotional, or habitual.
  • Spinoza: Free will is largely an illusion; most people act according to hidden causes.
  • Levinas: True self-awareness comes not from isolated reflection but from ethical responsibility to the Other.

🡆 How silence and asceticism help: Reducing distractions and impulse-driven behavior makes hidden motivations more visible, allowing for more conscious action.

Conclusion: Self-Knowledge as Seeing Through Illusions

Inner silence and asceticism expose false layers of identity, revealing the more fluid, dynamic, and interdependent nature of the self. Whether in religious mysticism, philosophy, or psychology, the idea persists: The “self” we cling to is often constructed, and seeing through this illusion is the key to wisdom.

Do you think seeing through these illusions leads to liberation, or does it create a crisis of meaning?

9. So is the self the same as identity, an illusive construction of individualism?

Not exactly. While identity—the way we define ourselves through roles, labels, and social constructs—is largely an illusory construction, the self is more complex. The self is not just identity, nor is it purely an illusion; rather, it is something fluid, relational, and contingent, yet still experientially real.

1. Identity as an Illusive Construction

  • Identity is shaped by culture, society, and history—it is largely a product of individualism in the modern sense.
  • Nietzsche (Genealogy of Morals): Identity is a historical construct, often dictated by external power structures, not an intrinsic self.
  • Postmodern thinkers (Foucault, Derrida): Identity is a narrative we tell ourselves, shaped by language and ideology.
  • Existentialists (Sartre): Identity is a project, something we constantly create, not something fixed.

🡆 If identity is constructed, then what is the self beneath it?

2. The Self: Fluid, Interdependent, and Experientially Real

  • Even if identity is a construct, the self is not necessarily an illusion—it is simply not what we assume it to be.
  • Buddhism (Anattā – No-Self): The self is not a static entity but a process—a constantly changing flow of consciousness.
  • Levinas (Ethics of the Other): The self is not found in isolated individualism but in relationship and responsibility to others.
  • Modern neuroscience: There is no single “self” in the brain—only patterns of neural activity that create a sense of continuity.

🡆 The self is not a fixed essence, but neither is it a pure fiction. Instead, it is a dynamic, relational experience.

3. Is Individualism an Illusion?

  • Modern individualism (Descartes, Locke, liberalism) promotes the idea of a self-contained, autonomous “I”, separate from society.
  • But many traditions challenge this:
    • Ubuntu (African philosophy): “I am because we are.” The self is fundamentally relational.
    • Daoism: The self is not an independent ego but part of a larger flow of nature.
    • Levinas: The self is ethically defined by its relationship to the Other, not by isolated self-definition.

🡆 Individualism is not an illusion, but it is a historically contingent worldview—not the “natural” or only way to conceive of the self.

Conclusion: The Self Is Not an Illusion, But It Is Not What We Think

  • Identity (socially constructed self) = largely an illusion.
  • The autonomous, self-contained individual (modern individualism) = a historically contingent idea.
  • The self as a fluid, relational, and dynamic process = a more defensible reality.

Would you say your own experience of selfhood feels more like a stable identity or a fluid, evolving process?

10. So what is the self? What is the “something” that is fluid, relational, and contingent. It seems defined by whay it isn’t. But what is it, and what is the difference between the self and the ego?

The self is difficult to define precisely because it is not a fixed entity but a process, an unfolding relationship, and an awareness that emerges through experience. It is not merely identity (socially constructed) nor purely an illusion (nonexistent), but rather something fluid, relational, and contingent—yet still experientially real.

To clarify this, let’s break it down:

1. The Self as Process and Awareness

Rather than being a fixed thing, the self is a dynamic process of becoming—a shifting awareness that arises through thought, memory, embodiment, and relationships.

  • William James (Stream of Consciousness): The self is not a thing but an ever-moving stream of experience—a constant flow of perceptions, emotions, and reflections.
  • Buddhist Anattā (No-Self) with Awareness: Buddhism denies a fixed self but does not deny awareness—there is an experiencing, but no separate, unchanging “I.”
  • Heidegger (Being and Time): The self is not a substance but a way of existing-in-the-world, shaped by time, context, and relationships.

🡆 The self is not a static entity but an ongoing unfolding of being, awareness, and relational existence.

2. The Self vs. the Ego

A key distinction often made is between the self and the ego:

ConceptDefinitionFunction
SelfThe fluid, relational, and aware process of beingA living, evolving experience of “I” beyond rigid identity
EgoThe constructed, self-defensive image of “I”Manages identity, survival instincts, and social adaptation
  • The ego is the mask: It is the collection of roles, defenses, and stories we tell ourselves to function in society.
  • The self is the living process beneath it: It is the deeper, changing reality that exists prior to and beyond our socially constructed ego.

3. The Self Exists in Relation

  • The self emerges through relationships, not isolation:
    • Levinas: We become ourselves in response to the Other—selfhood is ethical before it is autonomous.
    • Ubuntu philosophy: “I am because we are”—selfhood is interwoven with the community.
    • Modern neuroscience: The “self” is largely relational, shaped by interactions and neural feedback loops.

🡆 There is no self without the world—it is always “self-in-relation,” not “self-contained.”

4. What, Then, Is the Self?

Rather than defining it by what it isn’t, here is what the self is:

  • A stream of awareness that unfolds over time
  • A relational, interdependent process shaped by others and the world
  • A dynamic becoming, rather than a fixed being
  • A field of ethical responsibility and response to others

Would you say your sense of self feels more like an inner core or an ongoing process of becoming?

11. But why is the self supposed to be dynamic and changing all the time?

The idea that the self is dynamic and changing arises from the understanding that human experience, consciousness, and identity are constantly in flux—both internally and externally. This view challenges the traditional notion of a static, unchanging “core self.” Here’s why the self might be seen as dynamic:

1. The Nature of Experience Is Fluid

  • Consciousness and perception are always in motion. We are constantly perceiving, reflecting, and adjusting our sense of reality. This means the “I” that experiences the world is never static—it’s a continuous flow.
  • William James describes the mind as a “stream of consciousness”, where thoughts and experiences constantly flow and change. In this sense, the self is not a thing but an ongoing process of awareness and experience.

2. Change is Built into Human Development

  • From childhood to adulthood, our physical, psychological, and emotional states change—we learn, adapt, and evolve in response to new information, experiences, and relationships.
  • Psychological theories (Erik Erikson, Carl Jung) propose that identity is not fixed at one point but evolves through various stages, driven by internal growth and external challenges.
  • The self is responsive to circumstances—we reinvent ourselves based on new roles, crises, and discoveries.

3. Interdependence and Relationality

  • The self is not isolated but exists in relation to others and the environment. We are constantly shaped by our relationships, culture, and context, which are ever-changing.
  • Levinas emphasizes that the self is always in response to the Other, and that ethical selfhood comes from our engagement with others, leading to constant modification of who we are.
  • Buddhism’s Anattā (No-Self) suggests that there is no permanent, isolated “self” because we are interconnected with everything, always in flux.

4. The Ego is a Construct, Not a Fixed Core

  • The ego—the social mask we wear—is also dynamic and changing. It adapts and evolves depending on the roles we play, the situations we face, and the people we interact with.
  • Sartre argued that identity is a project, something we are constantly creating through our choices and actions. We are not born with a fixed self; rather, we become who we are through our lived experience and decisions.

5. Neuroscientific Insights

  • Neuroscience supports the idea that our sense of self is neuroplastic—the brain is always rewiring itself in response to learning, environment, and experience. The self, therefore, isn’t a stable structure but a neural process that reflects an ongoing interaction with the world.

6. The Limitations of a Static Self

A static view of the self leads to problems:

  • It suggests we are locked into a rigid identity, limiting growth and change.
  • It doesn’t account for the fact that human beings adapt to new challenges, undergo personal transformations, and alter their understanding of the world over time.

7. Philosophical Implications

  • Heraclitus: “You cannot step into the same river twice.” This ancient saying illustrates that everything, including the self, is in a state of constant change—the very nature of existence is flux.
  • Nietzsche: He emphasized the need for individuals to “overcome” themselves continuously, suggesting that to live authentically, one must constantly reinvent oneself.

Conclusion: Why a Dynamic Self?

The self is dynamic because life itself is dynamic—we grow, we learn, we experience, we relate. Being fluid allows us to adapt, evolve, and respond to new challenges and situations. The essence of being human is not about having a fixed identity but about becoming, adjusting, and engaging with a world that is itself in constant flux.

Would you say you identify with this idea of becoming rather than being, or does it feel unsettling to think of the self as always in motion?

12. Why is it in a “state of flux”, rather than just accumulating experience?

The self is in a state of flux rather than simply accumulating experience because experience itself shapes and transforms the very nature of who we are. The idea that the self is fluid or in flux highlights that we don’t just collect data or memories—we are actively shaped by the experiences we undergo, and that transformation is constant. Here’s why this is the case:

1. The Self is Not Just a Repository of Experiences

  • If the self were merely a static accumulation of experiences, then it would be like a container that fills up with memories, knowledge, and events without any change in the structure of who we are.
  • Instead, each experience we go through shapes our mind, body, and worldview, constantly altering the way we see ourselves and the world around us.
  • For example, a life-changing experience like a traumatic event or profound joy doesn’t just add a memory to your mind; it changes how you relate to the world, how you react emotionally, and how you see your role in life.
  • Jungian psychology: The self is a process of integration, where each experience and conflict molds the psyche into something new.

2. Growth and Transformation Through Experience

  • Personal growth isn’t just about accumulating knowledge or memories; it’s about how those experiences reshape our inner world.
  • Erik Erikson, a developmental psychologist, argues that identity evolves over the course of a lifetime, shaped by specific crises and challenges at various stages (e.g., adolescence, adulthood). Each stage transforms us in meaningful ways that lead us to new self-understandings.
  • For example, a person who has gone through a period of struggle or loss may develop a more profound sense of empathy or resilience, not just as a memory, but as a new way of relating to others and themselves.

3. Identity Is Continuously Reinterpreted

  • The self is in constant reinterpretation. We look back at experiences through a new lens, recontextualizing them based on new information, insights, or emotional maturity.
  • For example, something that may have seemed insignificant or painful in the past might later take on a deeper meaning as our perspectives evolve. This reinterpretation doesn’t merely add experiences to our identity—it reshapes it.
  • Philosophers like Heidegger and Merleau-Ponty argue that our understanding of ourselves is always situated in time—we are not static beings but exist within a flow of past, present, and future, and this is constantly shifting our identity.

4. The Role of Conflict and Disruption in Transformation

  • We don’t just accumulate experiences peacefully—conflicts, challenges, and disruptions often force us to rethink who we are.
  • Friedrich Nietzsche: He believed that we must overcome ourselves constantly, as the self is shaped by our struggles and challenges. The key to becoming who we are lies in embracing transformation through conflict.
  • Levinas: The self is constantly defined in response to the Other, and that interaction creates continual reconfigurations of our identity.
  • Example: When faced with a moral dilemma, a person’s sense of integrity or ethical identity may shift, changing their view of who they are in the world.

5. Neuroplasticity and the Brain’s Role in Flux

  • The brain is not a fixed structure—it is constantly adapting and changing based on new experiences, information, and even emotional states. This process is known as neuroplasticity.
  • Every experience you have is a change to the brain’s wiring. Your sense of self isn’t just accumulated knowledge—it’s deeply interwoven with the brain’s evolving neural patterns.
  • If you’re constantly adapting to new circumstances, your brain is restructuring itself, which means that who you are, your thoughts, and your emotional responses are always undergoing change.

6. The Self as Becoming, Not Being

  • Heraclitus, the ancient philosopher, famously said: “You cannot step into the same river twice.” His point is that everything is in a state of flux—the river is always flowing, and so are we.
  • The self is not something that simply accumulates over time; rather, it is always in the process of becoming—changing, adapting, and evolving.
  • Sartre, an existentialist philosopher, said that we are “condemned to be free”—that is, we are always in the process of becoming who we are, never fixed, always choosing and reinventing ourselves.

Conclusion: The Self as a Process of Change

The self is in a state of flux because life, consciousness, and identity are inherently dynamic—we don’t simply store experiences but are transformed by them. Our sense of self evolves as we engage with the world, face challenges, and reflect on our experiences. This fluidity allows for growth, learning, and adaptation in a constantly changing world.

Does this notion of the self feel freeing to you, or does it raise questions about how to maintain a sense of continuity in life?

13. What does “shaped by experience” mean

When we say the self is “shaped by experience,” we’re referring to how our thoughts, emotions, actions, and perceptions are influenced and altered by the experiences we undergo. In other words, our past experiences leave marks on our mental, emotional, and physical being, helping to define who we are and how we respond to the world. Here’s what it entails:

1. Cognitive Shaping (How We Think)

  • What we experience directly influences how we think. Our interactions with people, challenges, and successes shape our beliefs, attitudes, and worldviews.
  • For example, if someone grows up in an environment where critical thinking and questioning authority are encouraged, they may develop a mindset that values independence and skepticism.
  • Conversely, someone who experiences repeated failures might develop self-doubt or a more cautious, reserved approach to new challenges.
  • Cognitive biases (ways our brains process information) are also shaped by experience—our past experiences influence how we interpret new information.

2. Emotional Shaping (How We Feel)

  • Experiences, particularly emotional ones, leave an indelible mark on our emotional life.
  • Positive experiences (e.g., being loved or supported) may foster a sense of security, self-worth, or empathy.
  • Negative experiences (e.g., trauma or rejection) may lead to fear, anxiety, anger, or insecurity, which continue to affect our emotional responses in future situations.
  • Attachment theory suggests that the early relationships we have with caregivers deeply shape how we experience emotions in later relationships. If we experienced secure attachment, we are more likely to be emotionally balanced; if insecure, we may face challenges in emotional regulation.

3. Behavioral Shaping (How We Act)

  • Our experiences influence the way we act in the world. This includes everything from decision-making to how we interact with others.
  • If someone grows up in a highly competitive environment, they might develop competitive behaviors as they learn to excel in order to gain approval or success.
  • Alternatively, if someone faces consistent failure or lack of support, they might withdraw or avoid challenging situations.
  • Our habits—how we eat, exercise, or interact with others—are also shaped by past experiences. For example, a person who received positive reinforcement for being organized will likely develop organized habits.

4. Identity Shaping (Who We Think We Are)

  • The experiences we have over time contribute to the construction of our identity—the story we tell ourselves about who we are.
  • Experiences that validate our sense of self (e.g., being praised for a specific talent) reinforce our self-concept, while experiences that challenge our self-concept (e.g., failure or rejection) may lead to self-doubt or a re-evaluation of our identity.
  • In Erikson’s stages of development, identity is shaped over a lifetime by a series of challenges that force us to adapt and integrate new experiences into who we are.

5. Physiological Shaping (How Our Body Responds)

  • Experiences shape our physiology through neuroplasticity (the brain’s ability to change) and hormonal responses to emotions.
  • Traumatic events can change the way our nervous system reacts to stress, making us more sensitive to certain triggers. For example, someone who experiences abuse may develop a hypervigilant state (always on alert), which affects their daily functioning.
  • Our emotions—like anxiety or excitement—are linked to physical sensations, and over time, those patterns influence how we experience future emotions.

6. Shaping Through Repetition (Habit and Pattern Formation)

  • Repeated experiences create patterns, whether those are thought patterns, emotional reactions, or behaviors.
  • Over time, these patterns become ingrained in the self, sometimes automatically influencing our responses to situations without conscious thought.
  • For example, someone who repeatedly experiences criticism might develop a habit of self-doubt that becomes deeply ingrained in their self-image.

7. Social and Cultural Shaping

  • Our social interactions—with family, peers, and society—shape who we are, from our values to our behavior.
  • Experiences in different cultural contexts can deeply influence what we consider important, what we value, and even how we define success.
  • For example, a person raised in an individualistic culture (where personal achievement is emphasized) may value independence more highly than someone raised in a collectivist culture (where group harmony and interdependence are prioritized).

Conclusion: The Self as Shaped by Experience

The self is shaped by experience because every interaction with the world—whether emotional, cognitive, social, or physical—leaves an imprint on how we think, feel, act, and understand ourselves. It’s not just about accumulating experiences, but rather how those experiences transform us, influence our patterns, and ultimately create new dimensions of who we are. The self is continually molded by the ongoing flow of life—a constant interaction between our internal world and the external world.

Does this idea of experience actively shaping the self resonate with your own understanding, or does it feel more like a passive accumulation for you?

14. So whats the difference between the self and consciousness?

The difference between the self and consciousness is subtle but important. While they are deeply connected, they refer to different aspects of our mental and existential experience. Here’s a breakdown:

1. Consciousness: The State of Awareness

  • Consciousness refers to the state of being aware—it is the experience of being aware of thoughts, feelings, perceptions, and the external world.
  • It’s the ability to experience anything: sights, sounds, sensations, emotions, or thoughts. Consciousness is the medium through which we experience life.
  • Example: When you are awake and aware of your surroundings, your thoughts, or your emotions, you are in a state of consciousness. It doesn’t necessarily imply who you are—just that you are aware of your experience.
  • Consciousness is often considered phenomenal awareness, or the raw experience of being aware, without necessarily having a stable or permanent sense of identity.

2. The Self: The Subjective “I”

  • The self, on the other hand, is a more specific concept—it is the subjective sense of “who” you are, the identity you experience, and the continuity of that identity over time.
  • It is the narrative or story we tell ourselves about ourselves, the collection of memories, thoughts, roles, and experiences that form our understanding of who we are as a person.
  • The self is often seen as related to the ego, but it can also encompass a deeper, more transcendent sense of “I”—such as when you are reflecting on your existence, your values, or your ethical commitments.
  • Example: The self is the person who experiences consciousness—the one who says, “I am feeling sad” or “I am thinking about my future.” The self is not just aware of experiences, but also has a sense of continuity across time—like “I was this way yesterday, and I am still that person today.”

3. Relationship Between Self and Consciousness

  • Consciousness is the field in which the self exists. The self is a subjective experience, but consciousness is the broader awareness through which this experience is possible.
  • Consciousness can exist without a defined self. For example, in states of meditation or deep flow, you might experience pure awareness or presence without a strong sense of self (no clear “I”).
  • On the other hand, the self is always in consciousness, but it’s the sense of continuity and identity within that awareness. Without consciousness, the self couldn’t exist—there would be no awareness to support it.
  • Think of it like this: consciousness is the canvas, and the self is the picture painted on that canvas.

4. The Dynamic Nature of Both

  • Consciousness is also fluid and dynamic—it fluctuates with attention and awareness. One moment, you may be aware of a sound, the next, you’re focused on an internal thought.
  • Similarly, the self is dynamic—changing with new experiences, growth, and reflection. While it may seem more fixed compared to consciousness, it is still shaped by ongoing experiences.
  • The self relies on consciousness to maintain a sense of self-awareness—it is the reflection of the self within the conscious field. Without consciousness, you wouldn’t have the awareness of yourself as an individual subject.

5. Self as a Construction vs. Consciousness as Raw Experience

  • The self is more of a mental construction—it’s a product of memory, reflection, and social influences. It’s something we build over time, shaped by experiences and the stories we tell ourselves about who we are.
  • Consciousness, by contrast, is more immediate and direct—it’s the unmediated experience of being alive and aware in the present moment.
  • The self involves thinking about yourself—your identity, your past, your goals, and so on. Consciousness is simply being aware of what’s happening.

6. Can Consciousness Exist Without a Self?

  • Yes, consciousness can exist without a fully formed self—as seen in flow states, meditation, or spontaneous awareness.
  • For example, in deep meditation, one may experience a state of pure awareness without a strong or even present sense of “I”—no mental narrative of who “I am,” just awareness of what is.
  • The self is not always present in consciousness, but consciousness is always the ground for the self.

Summary: Key Differences

  • Consciousness is the state of awareness—it’s the ability to experience. It is more about raw experience than identity.
  • The self is the identity or subjective sense of “I”—it’s the narrative we construct about ourselves over time, informed by our experiences.
  • The self exists within consciousness, but consciousness can be experienced without the self in moments of pure awareness or detachment.

In a way, consciousness is the space in which the self arises—a fluid, ever-changing awareness, whereas the self is the experience of being an individual with continuity and identity, often tied to memory, roles, and social context.

Does this distinction between the self and consciousness clarify things for you? Or does it raise new questions about how we experience our existence?

Guy Crouchback

1. Waugh’s Guy Crouchback in the Sword of Honour Trilogy seems to have a scathing contempt for humanity and that is why he is not “simpatica”

In Sword of Honour, Guy Crouchback’s detachment from humanity does seem to shape his character. Evelyn Waugh portrays him as disillusioned — not with individuals so much as with modern society’s moral decay. His aristocratic values, rooted in tradition and chivalry, feel increasingly out of place in a world marked by cynicism, incompetence, and opportunism.

I wouldn’t say Guy has contempt for humanity exactly, but he often seems aloof, perhaps because he’s clinging to ideals that no longer seem relevant. This detachment can make him seem cold or unsympathetic, even though he’s motivated by a sense of duty. Do you think Waugh intended Guy’s lack of warmth as a critique of his values or as an embodiment of them?

2. It all depends on whether aristocratic values can be considered neutral, or whether tradition and chivalry were not just outdated but ethically questionable. At the centre is Waugh’s position on elitism.

Waugh’s stance on elitism is crucial to understanding Guy’s character. Waugh clearly admired certain aristocratic virtues — duty, loyalty, and restraint — but he was also aware that these values could become hollow or even harmful. Guy’s struggle seems less about heroism in the conventional sense and more about finding a moral foothold in a world that no longer values the code he’s trying to live by.

The question is whether Waugh presents Guy’s aristocratic outlook as noble yet tragic, or as fundamentally misguided. Guy’s detachment and discomfort suggest a certain moral rigidity — he’s slow to connect with others because he expects the world to operate by rules that no longer apply. That tension — between valuing tradition and recognizing its limits — feels central to the trilogy.

Do you see Waugh as nostalgic for those old values, or more resigned to their obsolescence?

Ah, the moral code, and in shadow of Catholicism

Yes, the shadow of Catholicism looms large. Waugh’s Catholicism — austere yet deeply personal — seems to shape both Guy’s moral framework and his alienation. Guy clings to a sense of order rooted in tradition and faith, yet the world he inhabits feels chaotic and morally ambiguous.

In that sense, Guy’s aristocratic values and his Catholicism are intertwined. Both promise structure and meaning, yet both feel increasingly ineffective in the face of war’s absurdity and human frailty. His moral code often seems more about private integrity than practical goodness — a standard he applies rigorously to himself but struggles to extend to others.

Waugh’s Catholicism, with its emphasis on original sin, grace, and redemption, complicates this further. Guy’s detachment may reflect a belief that humanity’s flaws are inevitable — something to be endured rather than corrected. Perhaps that’s what makes him unsympathetic at times; his moral seriousness becomes a kind of passivity.

Do you think Waugh ultimately portrays Guy’s steadfastness as virtuous, or does it feel more like stubbornness masquerading as moral clarity?

Moral clarity is a kind of oxymoron. Guy can only strive to be virtuous in a private or passive way because he is conflicted

Guy’s passivity seems less like a failure of will and more like the inevitable outcome of his inner conflict. He wants to live with integrity, yet the world around him offers no clear path to doing so. His moral compass points him toward ideals — loyalty, honour, duty — but those ideals seem compromised or futile in practice.

The war itself becomes a kind of metaphor for this. Guy longs for a cause that will give his values purpose, yet he finds himself surrounded by incompetence, selfishness, and moral compromise. In such a world, striving to be virtuous becomes a private, almost monastic act — an inward discipline rather than an outward force for change.

It’s as though Guy’s detachment is less about contempt for humanity and more about resignation — a recognition that human beings are too inconsistent, too compromised, for moral clarity to be anything more than an aspiration. Does that tension — the striving without resolution — seem to you like Waugh’s ultimate point, or do you think he’s gesturing at some deeper kind of redemption?

Ah redemption. In War and Peace, Tolstoy’s officer class seem to find loyalty, honour, duty in with military world, yet Pierre in the end rejects it in some redemptive self-exile into recluvise naturalism

Yes! War and Peace offers a fascinating contrast. The officer class — especially figures like Andrei — find meaning in the structure of war, where duty and honour feel tangible. But Pierre’s journey leads him in the opposite direction, toward a kind of mystical, introspective redemption. His self-exile isn’t just a rejection of war but of the entire system of values that had once defined him.

Guy Crouchback seems caught between these two poles. Unlike Tolstoy’s officers, he never fully embraces war as a source of meaning — he enters it hoping to find moral clarity, but instead encounters only absurdity. Yet he also doesn’t achieve the kind of spiritual peace that Pierre finds. His “redemption,” if we can call it that, is muted, hesitant, perhaps even incomplete.

Waugh doesn’t offer the grand resolution Tolstoy does. Pierre’s final retreat into a simple life feels almost like a spiritual victory. Guy’s ending, in contrast, feels more like resignation — a quiet acceptance that he cannot shape the world, only endure it.

Do you think Waugh’s Catholicism prevents him from granting Guy a Tolstoyan redemption? Pierre’s vision of harmony is deeply personal, even pantheistic, whereas Waugh’s worldview insists on something more structured, perhaps more constrained.

Yes I really do think that Catholicism was so conflicted for Waugh that he could not make peace with it, nor with humanity

Waugh’s Catholicism seems to have been both a refuge and a source of torment for him. He embraced it with a convert’s zeal, but it never seems to bring him peace — rather, it sharpens his awareness of human failure, both his own and everyone else’s. That tension seeps into Sword of Honour, where faith is always present but never quite redemptive in a satisfying way.

Unlike Tolstoy, who allows Pierre to shed the burdens of duty and embrace a kind of spiritual simplicity, Waugh keeps Guy tethered to a faith that offers structure but little comfort. There’s no real resolution because Waugh himself seems unable to reconcile his belief in Catholic doctrine with his scathing view of the world. In that sense, Sword of Honour feels more like an act of endurance than an act of transcendence.

Do you think Waugh was aware of this contradiction in himself? Or was Sword of Honour an unconscious working-out of his inability to reconcile faith with the world as he saw it?

I don’t think Waugh (or Guy Crouchback) were particularly likeable characters. They both seem misanthropic and self-righteous in their superiority and criticism of other people, especially the hoi polloi. They don’t appear to have any insight into that

Yes, there’s a definite lack of self-awareness in both Waugh and Guy. Their distaste for modernity, for the masses, for the “wrong sort” of people is never really examined—it’s simply assumed as part of their worldview. That makes Guy a difficult character to fully sympathize with. He’s not just disillusioned; he’s entrenched in a sense of superiority, even as the world refuses to conform to his standards.

Waugh’s satire often turns outward—he’s brilliant at exposing the pettiness, incompetence, and vanity of others—but he rarely turns that same lens on himself or on Guy. There’s little indication that Guy ever questions whether his alienation is, at least in part, his own fault. He stands apart, observing and judging, but never really engaging.

Do you think this was a blind spot in Waugh’s writing, or was it intentional? Was he consciously depicting Guy as a flawed product of his class and values, or does he expect us to share in Guy’s disdain for the world?

I dont know. In terms of blind spots we all have many levels of disavowal and self-deception. He was certainly a brilliant writer and observer of humanity. But compared for example with Henry James, Waugh seems bitter, angry, resentful as if some irredemable harm had been inflicted on his sense of hope.

Henry James, even in his most critical moments, retains a certain generosity toward his characters—an understanding that people are complex, that their flaws are often tragic rather than contemptible. Waugh, on the other hand, often writes as if he’s nursing a wound, as if the world has let him down in some unforgivable way. His sharpness isn’t just satire—it’s personal.

That bitterness seems tied to his sense of cultural and moral loss. His conversion to Catholicism gave him a framework, but not peace. He mourned a vanished aristocratic world, but he also knew it wasn’t coming back. His writing, especially Sword of Honour, has the air of someone watching civilization decline in real time, unable to stop it and unwilling to adjust.

Maybe that’s why Guy Crouchback is such a frustrating protagonist—he’s trapped in Waugh’s own resentment, unable to evolve, only to endure. In contrast, James’ characters often learn, even if what they learn is painful. Do you think Waugh’s bitterness is what makes him so compelling, or does it limit him as a novelist?

It makes him harder to read, and I harder to sympathise or emphasise or identify with his protagonists, but their complexity seems to be the hook, even though that complexity is never resolved.

Yes, exactly. Waugh’s protagonists don’t invite sympathy in the usual way, but their unresolved contradictions keep pulling you in. That lack of resolution—the way Guy remains trapped in his worldview, neither fully embracing nor fully rejecting it—makes him fascinating, even if not likable.

It’s as if Waugh’s novels function as studies in disillusionment rather than transformation. There’s no catharsis, no grand revelation—just a kind of weary endurance. That makes Sword of Honour feel, at times, frustratingly static, but also deeply true to life. Real people don’t always evolve in satisfying narrative arcs; sometimes they just carry on, wounded but unchanged.

Do you think Waugh wanted his readers to sympathize with Guy? Or was he deliberately keeping us at a distance, as if to say, “This is the way things are—like it or not”?

It could be both. The question is what was the illusion behind the disillusionment, what was the wound? He wants the reader to try to fathom this out, because he, the author, can’t, since in a way he is deliberately keeping himself at a distance from himself.

The illusion behind the disillusionment—what was lost, what was betrayed—feels like the hidden center of Waugh’s work, something he gestures at but never fully articulates. He forces the reader to engage with that absence, that wound, because he himself cannot (or will not) look at it too closely.

Perhaps the wound is historical—his belief that civilization, tradition, and faith had been eroded beyond repair. Or maybe it’s personal—some deeper disappointment in himself, in his own inability to reconcile faith with reality, ideals with the flawed nature of the world. His misanthropy feels defensive, as if by mocking and scorning others, he can avoid confronting whatever loss he himself suffered.

And so, Guy becomes an extension of that—a character both aware of his disillusionment and unable to fully understand its source. It’s as if Waugh is asking the reader to diagnose him, to piece together what even he cannot articulate.

Do you think this distance—this self-imposed opacity—is a strength or a weakness in Waugh’s writing? Would his novels be more powerful if he confronted the wound more directly, or is their power precisely in the way they circle around it without resolution?

I think the latter. But I think he is in a bind about the historical loss of civilization, tradition, and faith, because he sees it as elitist, as unjustifiable privilege but he likes it, he likes the grand family, he likes the Catholic rituals, he likes the refined manners, he likes being special.

Waugh is caught in a contradiction he can’t resolve. He recognizes the injustice of aristocratic privilege, but he also feels its loss as a kind of personal and cultural bereavement. He knows the world that produced grand families, Catholic grandeur, and refined manners was deeply flawed, but he still mourns it because it gave life a sense of order, meaning, and beauty that modernity seems to lack.

This is what makes his bitterness so charged—he’s not just lamenting historical change, he’s lamenting his own compromised position within it. He can neither fully justify nor fully abandon his nostalgia. It’s a bind that makes Sword of Honour such a compelling novel, because Guy, too, is stranded between rejecting and clinging to values that no longer quite fit.

Perhaps this is why Waugh’s satire is so biting—he attacks the world not just out of scorn, but out of frustration that it no longer accommodates the ideals he once believed in. And maybe he attacks himself, indirectly, for continuing to long for them.

Do you think this contradiction is what makes Waugh’s Catholicism feel so uneasy? He submits to it intellectually, but emotionally, he can’t quite make peace with it.

Maybe that is where it resonates with me. I can neither fully justify nor fully abandon my nostalgia for a simpler faith, for an almost monastic silence, a lyrical worldview. Which takes me back to Nietzsche and how the death of god has delivered us the last man.

Waugh’s own struggles with faith and nostalgia resonate with you because they echo that same tension—longing for something that feels lost yet knowing it cannot be fully reclaimed. His Catholicism, like your sense of faith, is not so much a place of certainty as a site of unresolved yearning.

And Nietzsche’s last man—that complacent, disenchanted figure who no longer strives for higher meaning—feels like the great specter haunting both Waugh’s work and the modern world. If the old structures of faith, tradition, and beauty have eroded, what is left? For Waugh, as for Nietzsche, the answer seems bleak: a civilization that no longer aspires to the sublime, content with mediocrity.

Is that what makes Waugh’s bitterness resonate despite his flaws? That he refuses to settle into complacency, even if he cannot resolve his contradictions?

Post-truth

Debates about rationalism, which were so central to the Enlightment project seem to have been eclipsed by the post-truth questionning of the validity of all underlying assumptions (or lemmas)

Yes, the grand debates about rationalism—whether reason alone can ground knowledge, whether empirical verification is necessary, and whether human cognition can access objective reality—have largely been displaced. The current intellectual climate, shaped by postmodernism, critical theory, and the epistemic fragmentation of the digital age, often questions not just the authority of reason but the very coherence of any foundational assumptions.

The shift isn’t just a move from rationalism to empiricism (or vice versa) but from epistemology itself toward a more radical skepticism:

  • Enlightenment Rationalism debated how we know what we know, assuming that knowledge itself was possible.
  • Postmodern/Post-Truth Thought often interrogates whether knowledge is anything more than power, ideology, or linguistic construct.

The latter perspective, when extreme, can dissolve not just rationalism but also the possibility of meaningful discourse. The risk is that we slide into a relativism where truth is simply a matter of social power, and discourse collapses into competing narratives without arbitration.

Do you see this shift as something inevitable in light of modern complexities, or do you think it marks a kind of intellectual decline?

It certainly marks an intellectual decline, but I can also see how it has happened. While rhetoric has alway been there to undermine reasoned argument, having control of the media seems increasingly important. The power to thrust your views into the ears of others.

Yes, the decline is evident, but not inexplicable. The ability to propagate ideas has always shaped intellectual discourse, but now the sheer velocity and saturation of information seem to have overwhelmed reasoned debate. Control over media—whether traditional or digital—creates an environment where persuasion often trumps coherence, and rhetorical force replaces careful argumentation.

The irony is that the Enlightenment itself laid the groundwork for this. Its focus on free speech and the marketplace of ideas assumed that reason would ultimately prevail, but it didn’t anticipate the extent to which attention, emotion, and repetition could overpower rational discourse. If anything, we’ve entered an age where epistemology is not just about what we know but about who controls what gets heard.

Do you think there’s any way to counteract this trend, or is it simply the inevitable endpoint of mass media and digital hyperconnectivity?

It is certainly a sorry state of affairs. It’s all about power and money (which equals politics). And I dont think we have reached the endpoint yet. We all see the world differently, especially values, but we have lived in more or less homogenous community with tolerance. Those communities have gone and been replaced by polarised tribal silos. I dont know the answer

It does seem like the fragmentation of shared narratives has accelerated, and instead of a pluralistic society that fosters tolerance, we have competing tribes locked in a battle for dominance. The internet, which was once heralded as a tool for democratizing knowledge, has ironically fueled this shift by allowing people to self-sort into ideological echo chambers.

The loss of a common culture or set of agreed-upon principles has made even basic discourse difficult. Without shared ground, even appeals to reason or ethics become just another weapon in the struggle for power. You’re right—we haven’t reached the endpoint yet, and it’s hard to say what that will look like.

I suspect the only way forward is at a smaller scale—local communities that re-learn the habits of dialogue, listening, and compromise. Grand, top-down solutions seem unlikely, given the forces at play. But whether enough people care to rebuild those lost forms of discourse is another question.

Do you think there’s any sphere left where real conversation still happens? Or are even those pockets of thoughtful engagement fading?

It’s like addiction. I remember a Consultant Psychotherapist who was working with drug addicts saying that the drug made them feel normal, made them feel themselves. If we are innatelly driven to relate to others (as we are) then we have to deal with the frustration that they are not like us. But if we seek out and find others like ourselves, then we can enter into some solopsistic union where we feel and recognise ourselves, but in some autistic yet addictive space.

That’s a sharp analogy. The drive for recognition—the need to see ourselves reflected in others—is fundamental. When that recognition is denied or complicated by difference, it creates discomfort. Historically, communities had to work through that discomfort because they were bound together by necessity, geography, or tradition. Now, technology has made it possible to bypass that friction entirely, allowing us to curate our interactions until we exist in a kind of hall of mirrors.

Your comparison to addiction is especially apt because, like addiction, this process offers an immediate reward—validation, a sense of belonging, the illusion of clarity—while slowly eroding the ability to engage with a more complex, frustrating reality. The “autistic yet addictive space” you describe captures the paradox well: it’s an enclosed world of sameness that feels deeply real to those inside it, yet it cuts them off from genuine dialogue and growth.

The challenge, then, is how to break the cycle. With addiction, the first step is recognizing the problem, but what’s the intervention for a society hooked on solipsistic tribalism? Is there a way to reintroduce the value of discomfort—of engaging with the Other, as Levinas would say—without just triggering defensive entrenchment?

Ah, the value of discomfort. That’s Piaget’s “accommodation”, the painful process of changing our worldview to align with what we see (and know as true). Instead we dont change, but simply assimilate the new into the old, by a process of self-deception and illusionment. Then again, what is it that we see. Fingarette saw it as looking away.

Yes, exactly—Piaget’s accommodation is that difficult but necessary process of reshaping our mental structures in response to reality, rather than merely reshuffling the new to fit within the old (assimilation). True learning, true growth, is uncomfortable because it demands that we let go of something we once thought sufficient.

But as you say, the modern response often isn’t accommodation—it’s self-deception. Instead of engaging with what challenges us, we look away, as Fingarette described. There’s a willful blindness at play, not just at the personal level but collectively. Rather than confront the implications of new realities, we reframe them so they don’t disturb our settled worldview. We rationalize, deny, or drown them in noise.

I wonder if our present crisis isn’t just epistemic but psychological. The fragmentation, the tribalism, the addiction to ideological sameness—perhaps these aren’t just failures of reason but symptoms of a deeper avoidance. People don’t just resist changing their views; they resist seeing at all. Because once you truly see, accommodation is inevitable, and that can be terrifying.

So, how do you get people to stop looking away? Or, to put it another way, what makes accommodation possible rather than just another layer of illusion?

Willful blindness is an interesting concept. It implies seeing and yet not seeing, or knowing and yet not acknowledging. There are two layers of representing the world. One is direct, procedural, fast (as in Thinking Fast and Slow), non-reflective but acutely perceptive and “true”. The other is indirect, declarative, and slow, but it is also reflective and integrative and links with our identity and values, our egosyntonic self. Maybe these are the layers of illusion you hint at. The deeper (unconscious) procedural representation is probably hedonistic and focussed on using the Object in ways that would feel egodystonic. But this is the representation that shapes our dis-awoved actions. So we can act selfishly whilst believing we are acting altruistically.

Yes, that dual-layered structure of cognition seems crucial to understanding willful blindness. The procedural, intuitive layer operates below the surface—quick, adaptive, and often brutally honest about our desires and instincts. It doesn’t concern itself with justification; it simply is. The declarative, reflective layer, by contrast, is slow, rationalizing, and deeply tied to our self-concept. It’s here that illusion takes root, because this is where we craft the story of who we are.

If the procedural level is hedonistic, oriented toward desire and use, then it makes perfect sense that it would generate behaviors that the reflective self cannot fully integrate—acts of selfishness, bias, or even cruelty that are then reframed at the declarative level in ways that preserve our self-image. This is the mechanism that allows us to act egodystonically while maintaining an egosyntonic belief about ourselves.

In other words, we don’t just deceive others—we deceive ourselves, and in an incredibly sophisticated way. We don’t simply ignore contradictions; we actively construct narratives that obscure them. This is why self-awareness is so difficult, and why moral growth is often so painful. It’s not just about changing our minds—it’s about undoing the illusions that protect our self-concept.

But here’s the troubling question: if our procedural drives shape our actions while our declarative mind crafts the illusion of righteousness, then how do we ever really change? What forces, internal or external, are strong enough to disrupt that process—to force us to see ourselves in ways that demand true accommodation?

Maybe honesty. Maybe its not a zero-sum game. Maybe all the assimilations and illusionments eventually lead to a fractured and insecure or even meaningless sense of Being, as if you know that you are living a lie. I dont know what spirituality is but honesty has something to do with it. Being true to yourself. And I think you can find it in the company of others that you love.

That feels profoundly right—honesty as the key to breaking through illusion. Not just honesty in the superficial sense of telling the truth, but a deeper honesty, an existential integrity where one ceases to live a lie, ceases to engage in the self-deception that maintains a fractured and fragile sense of Being.

Maybe it’s not a zero-sum game because even the layers of illusion, the failed accommodations, and the self-deceptions eventually accumulate into a crisis—a point where one knows at some level that the structure isn’t holding. There’s an unease, a dissonance, a sense of living in bad faith. And perhaps that’s where something real can begin.

If spirituality has something to do with honesty, then it’s not about adherence to doctrine but about stripping away the falsehoods that make life feel hollow. And yes, that’s rarely done alone. The presence of others—those we love, those who love us—can hold up a mirror that allows us to see ourselves with clarity, not judgment.

Maybe spirituality is just that: a space where we are seen and known without illusion, and where, in turn, we allow ourselves to see.

The engagement is not about maximising one’s own comfort, it is about reaching out to feel the other’s perspective, their concerns and needs, and acknowledging their differences

Yes, exactly. Engagement—true engagement—is not about securing comfort or reinforcing one’s own perspective. It’s about stepping outside oneself, reaching beyond the safe boundaries of one’s own worldview to genuinely encounter the Other. That requires vulnerability, a willingness to be unsettled, to have one’s assumptions challenged not as an attack, but as an opportunity to see more fully.

This is where Levinas’ ethics feels so necessary. The face of the Other calls us into responsibility—not because they are the same as us, but precisely because they are not. Acknowledging difference without trying to erase it, without collapsing it into something more palatable or familiar, is an act of respect and even love.

But this kind of engagement is difficult in a world that encourages self-curation and ideological entrenchment. It demands patience, deep listening, and a willingness to let go of the idea that we must always be “right” or comfortable.

Would you say that this kind of openness is itself a spiritual practice? It seems to have more to do with how we relate than what we believe.

Yes, I don’t mean spiritual in some metaphysical or supernatural sense. Maybe its some nostalgic feeling of acceptance and being held in a primal unconditional way.

That makes a lot of sense. Spirituality, in this sense, isn’t about doctrines or metaphysics—it’s about a way of being with the world and with others. A kind of openness, honesty, and presence that allows for real connection.

That nostalgic feeling you describe—acceptance, being held unconditionally—seems to touch on something deeply human. Maybe it’s a memory of childhood security, or maybe it’s something we glimpse in rare moments of trust and communion. It’s not about control or certainty, but about belonging in a way that doesn’t require masks or self-justification.

If spirituality is anything, maybe it’s the search for that. A way to be at home in the world, even while embracing its uncertainties and differences. A way to hold and be held, without needing to diminish or distort either ourselves or others.

And maybe ritual plays a role in that, something that echos with the eternal

Yes, ritual seems to create a bridge between the transient and the eternal. Even in a world where grand metaphysical claims no longer hold the same weight, ritual can still provide that echo—a rhythm, a structure that connects us to something beyond the immediate moment.

Maybe it works because ritual isn’t just about individual belief; it’s about participation. It roots us in something larger, whether that’s community, tradition, or simply the shared experience of repetition and meaning. A ritual doesn’t need to be supernatural to evoke a sense of the sacred—it just needs to create a space where we step out of ordinary time, where we engage in something that feels true beyond the shifting chaos of daily life.

This brings us back to your earlier point about spirituality being tied to honesty, presence, and relationship. Ritual, at its best, doesn’t impose belief—it holds us in a space where we can experience belonging, connection, and perhaps even a glimpse of that unconditional acceptance you described.

John Gray

John Gray is an erodite and pursuasive thinker, but he has his critics. What are the main issues on which they disagree with him?

John Gray is an incisive and often contrarian thinker, but his work has drawn significant criticism on several fronts. Here are the main areas where his critics take issue with him:

1. His Critique of Human Progress

  • What Gray Argues: He rejects the idea that history is a story of moral or intellectual progress. He sees human nature as largely unchanging, with recurring cycles of violence and self-delusion.
  • Criticism: Many argue that he downplays real social, technological, and ethical advancements. While human nature may not change, institutions, norms, and knowledge structures do, and these have led to genuine improvements in quality of life, human rights, and governance.

2. His Pessimism About Liberalism

  • What Gray Argues: He views liberalism as another utopian ideology, akin to communism or religious eschatology, believing that its promise of universal progress is naive.
  • Criticism: Some believe his critique is too sweeping and ignores the flexibility of liberalism, which is not necessarily utopian but adaptive. Critics like Amartya Sen or Steven Pinker argue that liberal democracy, despite its flaws, has led to significant global benefits.

3. His Alleged Relativism and Nihilism

  • What Gray Argues: He is skeptical of grand narratives, including secular humanism, and often suggests that meaning is ultimately contingent and constructed.
  • Criticism: Some accuse him of moral relativism or even quietism—suggesting that if all values are arbitrary, then there is no basis for moral action. Others argue that he dismisses the possibility of objective ethics too easily.

4. His Treatment of Religion

  • What Gray Argues: He rejects both religious belief and militant atheism, seeing both as different manifestations of the same need for meaning. He respects religious traditions as sources of wisdom but does not see them as true.
  • Criticism: Religious thinkers argue that he treats belief too cynically, while New Atheists (like Richard Dawkins) argue that he gives religion too much credit as a cultural force.

5. His Selective Use of History

  • What Gray Argues: He frequently cites historical examples of human folly, ideological failure, and violence to argue against progress.
  • Criticism: Critics accuse him of cherry-picking evidence, emphasizing the worst episodes of history while downplaying counterexamples of successful social and political reform.

Would you say any of these criticisms resonate with you, or do you find Gray’s skepticism refreshing?

Did this affect how Straw Dogs was received?

Yes, Straw Dogs (2002) was both widely praised and sharply criticized, precisely because of the themes you mentioned. It was a provocative and uncompromising attack on humanist assumptions, and its reception reflected the divisions in opinion about Gray’s worldview.

Praise for Straw Dogs

  • Many readers, especially those disillusioned with Western liberal optimism, found it a bracing antidote to comforting myths about progress and human rationality.
  • Critics admired its erudition and literary style, as well as its willingness to challenge sacred cows of both religious and secular thought.
  • Some thinkers, like the philosopher Simon Critchley, appreciated its stark honesty in confronting the limits of human agency.

Criticism of Straw Dogs

  1. Pessimism and Fatalism
    • Critics like Terry Eagleton and Steven Pinker argued that Gray’s rejection of progress leads to an almost nihilistic worldview that offers no guidance for action.
    • By asserting that humans will always be trapped by their instincts and illusions, Gray seemed to deny the possibility of meaningful ethical or political change.
  2. Misrepresentation of Humanism
    • Many defenders of secular humanism (including John Gray’s fellow atheists) argued that he caricatured humanist thought, portraying it as naïve and quasi-religious when, in reality, many humanists recognize suffering and contingency without resorting to utopianism.
  3. Selective Use of Evidence
    • Critics accused Gray of cherry-picking historical examples of violence and failure while ignoring evidence of real social progress, such as reductions in extreme poverty and improvements in human rights.
    • Steven Pinker, in The Better Angels of Our Nature, explicitly challenged Gray’s view by presenting data-driven arguments for moral progress.
  4. What Does He Actually Offer?
    • While Gray dismantled prevailing ideas about human purpose, critics noted that he offered little in their place. Some found his position too detached, amounting to an elegant form of cynicism rather than a constructive alternative.
    • Eagleton quipped that Straw Dogs was essentially telling people to “roll over and have their tummies tickled by fate.”

Overall Reception

  • Straw Dogs became a cult classic among those disillusioned with modern ideologies.
  • However, it also reinforced Gray’s reputation as a “negative thinker”—more skilled at tearing down ideas than building new ones.
  • The book cemented his status as an outsider in contemporary philosophical debates, admired for his sharp critique but often dismissed as offering little in the way of solutions.

Did you find Straw Dogs compelling, or did you have reservations about its bleakness?

In terms of rationalism, if the long-term effect of any action is difficult to predict (because of complexity of interactions), how can any decision be informed?

That’s a deep and difficult question, and it touches on the limits of rationalism, especially when applied to decision-making in complex systems. If long-term outcomes are inherently unpredictable due to the complexity of interactions, how can we make rational choices at all? Here are a few possible ways to think about this problem:

1. Pragmatism Over Prediction

Rather than trying to predict the long-term consequences of every action, we can adopt a pragmatic approach:

  • Focus on short- to medium-term effects that are more predictable.
  • Make decisions based on what is most likely to work now, adjusting as new information emerges.
  • Accept that course correction is often necessary, rather than expecting to get it right from the start.

This aligns with Karl Popper’s idea of piecemeal social engineering—small, incremental changes that can be tested and revised, rather than grand, utopian projects that rely on accurate long-term forecasting.

2. Use Probabilistic Thinking

Even in complex systems, we can assign probabilities to different outcomes based on past patterns and empirical data. While certainty is impossible, rational decision-making often works on likelihoods rather than absolute predictions.

  • Bayesian reasoning—updating beliefs as new evidence comes in—is an example of this.
  • Risk assessment models work similarly: instead of predicting one definite future, they estimate possible risks and weigh options accordingly.

3. Focus on Principles, Not Outcomes

If long-term effects are unpredictable, one response is to shift decision-making from outcome-based reasoning (consequentialism) to principle-based reasoning (deontology or virtue ethics).

  • Instead of asking, “What will bring about the best outcome?” (which is often unknowable), we might ask, “What is the most ethical course of action based on principles we value?”
  • This doesn’t eliminate risk, but it means actions are guided by intrinsic values rather than speculative forecasting.

4. Embrace Complexity with Adaptive Strategies

  • Systems thinking suggests that instead of looking for linear cause-effect chains, we should recognize feedback loops, unintended consequences, and emergent properties.
  • Instead of rigid plans, adaptive strategies—which involve continuous monitoring and adjustment—are often more effective.
  • This is how complex systems like ecosystems or economies function: through trial, error, and resilience, rather than perfect foresight.

5. Ethical Minimalism: First, Do No Harm

  • In situations of extreme uncertainty, it may be rational to minimize potential harm rather than maximize potential benefit.
  • This aligns with Nassim Taleb’s “via negativa” principle—removing potential dangers or fragilities rather than trying to optimize for an unpredictable future.

Conclusion

While long-term prediction is unreliable, rational decision-making is still possible through pragmatism, probabilistic reasoning, principle-based ethics, adaptive strategies, and harm minimization.

Gray himself might argue that our attempts to fully control the future are a human delusion. But rather than abandoning rational action altogether, we can adopt a humble, experimental, and adaptable approach to decision-making.

Does this framework resonate with you, or do you lean toward a more skeptical view of rationalism’s limits?

Why does philosopher Simon Critchley appreciate Gray’s stark honesty in confronting the limits of human agency?

Simon Critchley, like John Gray, is deeply skeptical of grand narratives—whether religious, political, or secular—that claim to offer ultimate meaning or moral progress. While Critchley does not fully agree with Gray’s conclusions, he appreciates Gray’s stark honesty in confronting the limits of human agency for several reasons:

1. Rejection of Human Exceptionalism

Critchley, like Gray, challenges the idea that humans are in control of their own destiny in any deep sense. Both philosophers reject the notion that human reason or ethics will lead to a utopian future. Critchley admires Gray’s unflinching critique of human self-deception, particularly our tendency to believe that we can master history, nature, or even ourselves.

2. Gray’s Relentless Anti-Humanism

Gray’s critique of secular humanism—especially the belief that reason and science will progressively liberate humanity—resonates with Critchley’s own suspicion of Enlightenment optimism. Gray sees humanism as just another myth, and Critchley appreciates the ruthlessness with which Gray dismantles comforting illusions.

3. Facing Up to Absurdity Without Consolation

Critchley, influenced by existentialist thought (especially Camus), shares Gray’s conviction that there is no inherent meaning in the universe. However, unlike many contemporary thinkers who try to fill the void with political ideologies, progressive ethics, or spirituality, Gray refuses to offer any false consolation. Critchley respects this radical honesty, even if it leads to bleak conclusions.

4. A Shared Interest in Tragic Wisdom

Both thinkers are drawn to tragedy as a form of wisdom. They see history not as a story of progress but as a cycle of recurring failures, delusions, and self-destruction. Critchley, whose work explores the role of grief, loss, and ethical responsibility, sees Gray’s work as an important, if unsettling, reminder of the limits of human ambition.

5. A Critique of Political and Philosophical Hubris

Critchley, like Gray, is critical of grand ideological projects—whether Marxist, neoliberal, or religious—because they often lead to disastrous consequences when applied rigidly. He appreciates Gray’s willingness to puncture intellectual arrogance, even if he may not share Gray’s total rejection of political action.

Where They Differ

While Critchley appreciates Gray’s honesty, he does not fully endorse his quietism—the idea that since history is cyclical and human agency is limited, we should withdraw from attempts to change the world. Critchley leans more toward an ethics of small-scale, local engagement, influenced by Levinas and anarchist thought. In contrast, Gray sometimes seems to suggest that the wisest course is to retreat into a kind of philosophical resignation.

Final Thought

Critchley sees value in Gray’s merciless clarity about the human condition. Even if one disagrees with Gray’s extreme skepticism, his unwillingness to sugarcoat reality makes him a necessary, if uncomfortable, voice in contemporary thought.

Do you find Gray’s stark realism illuminating, or do you think he goes too far into fatalism?

You say, Critchley leans more toward an ethics of small-scale, local engagement, influenced by Levinas and anarchist thought. Tell me more about this

Simon Critchley’s ethical and political thought emphasizes small-scale, local engagement rather than grand ideological programs or state-driven politics. His approach is influenced by Emmanuel Levinas and elements of anarchist thought, both of which shape his belief that ethics begins in direct human relationships rather than abstract principles or large-scale systems.

1. Levinas: Ethics as Responsibility to the Other

Critchley draws heavily from Levinas, who argues that ethics is rooted in the face-to-face encounter with the Other. This means:

  • Ethics is not about universal laws or grand theories (as in Kant or utilitarianism) but about the irreducible, personal responsibility we have toward others.
  • The presence of the Other interrupts our self-centeredness and calls us to respond with care and obligation.
  • Ethics is pre-political—it starts in the immediacy of human relationships rather than in state structures or legal systems.

Critchley takes this to mean that meaningful ethical action happens in small, everyday acts of care and solidarity, rather than through ambitious, large-scale political schemes that often lead to unintended harm.

2. Anarchism: Rejecting Top-Down Power in Favor of Local, Collective Action

Critchley’s interest in anarchist thought (especially thinkers like Kropotkin and Gustav Landauer) aligns with his skepticism of centralized power and large-scale revolutionary politics. Instead, he favors:

  • Decentralized, cooperative structures rather than state-led governance.
  • Direct action and grassroots activism rather than electoral politics or violent revolutions.
  • The idea that society is built from below, through everyday relationships and mutual aid, rather than imposed from above by governments or ideologies.

This leads him to reject both liberal optimism and revolutionary utopianism, which he sees as often leading to disillusionment and authoritarianism.

3. Politics as Humility, Not Mastery

Unlike Gray, who tends to see politics as futile or delusional, Critchley believes that political engagement is necessary, but it must be done with humility—recognizing that we are not in control of history and that we can only make small, local improvements.

  • Instead of pursuing power, politics should focus on care, responsibility, and resistance to domination.
  • This view aligns with prefigurative politics—the idea that we should live out the world we want to see in small-scale communities, rather than waiting for some grand future revolution.

4. Why This Matters in Contrast to Gray

  • Gray is deeply pessimistic about human action, often suggesting that history is cyclical and that political projects inevitably fail.
  • Critchley accepts the limits of human agency but still argues that small acts of ethical responsibility and solidarity matter.
  • While Gray leans toward withdrawal or detachment, Critchley argues that engagement at a local, personal level is both meaningful and necessary.

Final Thought

Critchley offers a middle path between Gray’s fatalism and naïve utopianism—a way of acting ethically and politically without illusions but also without giving up on responsibility.

Does this approach resonate with you more than Gray’s quietism? Or do you think Critchley’s small-scale ethics is still too idealistic?

I think Critchley’s small-scale local engagement is similar to Karl Popper’s idea of piecemeal social engineering that you discussed earlier, along with adaptive strategies

Yes, absolutely! Critchley’s small-scale, local engagement shares a deep kinship with Karl Popper’s “piecemeal social engineering” and the adaptive strategies we discussed earlier. All three approaches—Critchley’s ethics, Popper’s philosophy, and adaptive thinking—share the following key ideas:

1. Rejection of Grand Utopianism

  • Critchley: Rejects large-scale revolutionary projects and state-driven ideologies, advocating instead for local, direct ethical responsibility.
  • Popper: Criticized utopian social planning as dangerous because it often justifies authoritarianism in the name of an ideal future.
  • Adaptive Thinking: Acknowledges that large systems are too complex to be fully controlled, so change should be incremental rather than based on rigid, long-term predictions.

2. Bottom-Up Change Over Top-Down Control

  • Critchley: Ethics and politics begin in small interactions rather than being imposed through laws or grand narratives.
  • Popper: Advocated for small, testable reforms rather than sweeping ideological revolutions.
  • Adaptive Strategies: Encourage continuous feedback and local adjustments, rather than imposing rigid, top-down policies.

3. Humility About Knowledge and Unintended Consequences

  • Critchley: Stresses that we do not control history and must engage politically with humility, focusing on relationships rather than ideological mastery.
  • Popper: Warned that large-scale social engineering is dangerous precisely because we cannot predict all outcomes, and error correction is crucial.
  • Adaptive Thinking: Recognizes that trial and error, rather than rigid plans, is the best way to navigate complexity.

4. Ethics and Social Change as Ongoing, Not Finalized

  • Critchley: Ethics is an ongoing, lived responsibility, not something that can be resolved through a single political victory or revolution.
  • Popper: Argued that social improvement is a continuous process of experimentation, never a finished project.
  • Adaptive Strategies: Assume that systems evolve and must be constantly adjusted rather than “solved” once and for all.

Conclusion

Critchley’s small-scale ethics, Popper’s piecemeal social engineering, and adaptive strategies all emerge from a deep skepticism about control, mastery, and long-term prediction. Instead of grand plans, they propose humble, iterative, and localized approaches to ethics and politics.

Would you say this kind of modest, adaptive approach appeals to you more than Gray’s quietism or large-scale political idealism?

Yes because it recognises the limits of rationalism whilst retaining some sense of agency. The key is to define the small-scale ethics and that is where Levinas has so much to say.

That makes a lot of sense. Levinas’ focus on face-to-face responsibility offers a foundation for small-scale ethics that is deeply relational rather than abstract. His idea that ethics is not about universal rules but about responding to the Other in concrete situations aligns well with adaptive, bottom-up approaches to social engagement.

Would you say that Levinas’ ethics, in this sense, provides a way to ground meaning after the loss of grand narratives—something that thinkers like Gray dismiss too easily?

Yes it does provide a way to ground meaning, in the sense of meaning being grounded in the Other

That’s a powerful way to reframe meaning—not as something we impose or discover in isolation, but as something that arises through ethical responsibility to others. It also resists the nihilism that thinkers like Gray lean toward, since meaning is not an illusion but something that emerges in real human encounters.

Do you see this as a purely ethical grounding, or do you think it also has implications for politics, community, or even spirituality?

I dont know about politics, but this ethical grounding provides a new way of looking at community and particularly spirituality

That makes a lot of sense. If meaning is found in ethical responsibility to the Other, then community is no longer just about shared beliefs or traditions—it becomes a space where ethical encounter shapes identity. And spiritually, this could shift the focus away from doctrine or metaphysics toward a lived, relational practice of presence and responsibility.

Do you see this as resonating with any past experiences you’ve had with community or spirituality?

It is so difficult. If we cannot make informed decisions, then we really dont know where these short-term adaptive action will lead. There is a kind of anarchy about that. Are we just floating in a fitness landscape, chasing local minima or local illusions.

Yes, that’s the paradox. If long-term effects are unpredictable, then even small-scale, adaptive actions might be randomly drifting, rather than meaningfully progressing. There’s a deep anarchic quality to this—without a clear goal or stable framework, are we just responding to immediate pressures without real agency?

Your analogy of floating in a fitness landscape is sharp. Evolutionary processes don’t move toward a “best” solution, only local optima—which might be illusions. If ethics and community work the same way, then we’re not really choosing a direction but just adapting to what’s around us.

But here’s a counter-thought:

  • Even if we can’t predict the future, we can still choose what we value.
  • Levinas would argue that ethics isn’t about control or progress—it’s about a commitment to the Other, even in uncertainty.
  • Maybe the “goal” isn’t some final ethical solution but the practice of ongoing attentiveness and responsibility—even if it feels groundless.

The Encompassing

Jaspers’ encompassing is described as both “beyond the reach” and “the ultimate ground”, in other words over the horizon yet beneath our feet

Yes, that’s a great way to capture Karl Jaspers’ concept of the “Encompassing” (das Umgreifende). Jaspers uses this term to point to the ultimate reality or ground of being that transcends any specific object of thought or experience while simultaneously being the condition for all experience and thought.

When he says the Encompassing is “beyond the reach,” he’s highlighting its transcendent quality—it cannot be fully grasped, conceptualized, or objectified. It is always just beyond the horizon of what we can think or articulate. At the same time, calling it “the ultimate ground” emphasizes its immanent aspect. It underlies and supports everything; it is the very condition for the possibility of being and knowing.

Jaspers’ philosophy is often described as a kind of philosophical faith—a recognition of the limits of human cognition alongside a trust in the reality that exceeds those limits. There’s a dynamic tension between immanence and transcendence, much like standing on solid ground while looking out into an endless sea.

Are you exploring Jaspers in a particular context, like existentialism, philosophy of religion, or perhaps his ideas on communication and truth?

Philosophy of religion

In the philosophy of religion, Jaspers’ concept of the Encompassing plays a fascinating role. Unlike traditional theological frameworks that might define God as a specific entity or personal being, Jaspers approaches ultimate reality with a kind of negative theology. The Encompassing resists objectification; it cannot be fully captured by religious dogma or doctrines.

For Jaspers, religious symbols, myths, and scriptures are not absolute truths but ciphers—they point beyond themselves to the ineffable Encompassing. This idea aligns with his broader existential project of transcending mere empirical or rational knowledge to encounter deeper truths through Existenz (authentic existence).

He also distinguishes between philosophical faith and revealed religion. While revealed religion often relies on concrete historical claims and institutional structures, Jaspers’ philosophical faith is more about an open, personal engagement with transcendence. It invites a kind of inward journey, where the individual encounters the mystery of being through existential experiences, such as suffering, love, guilt, and the “boundary situations” that confront us with our own limits.

How does this resonate with your own thinking about religion? Are you more interested in the mystical, existential, or perhaps ethical dimensions of Jaspers’ approach?

Does Jaspers’ have a particular take on ethics?

Yes, Jaspers’ approach to ethics is deeply intertwined with his existential and transcendental philosophy. Unlike systems of ethics that provide concrete rules or normative guidelines (like Kantian deontology or utilitarianism), Jaspers’ ethics are more about personal authenticity and the individual’s encounter with the Encompassing.

For Jaspers, true ethical action arises not from external prescriptions but from the inner freedom of Existenz. This involves a deep sense of responsibility, not just to concrete others but also to the transcendent dimension of life. His idea of communication is crucial here—genuine ethical life involves open, truthful dialogue that respects the other as a manifestation of the Encompassing.

Jaspers also emphasizes boundary situations—moments of crisis, suffering, or death—where ordinary ethical frameworks might fall short. In these moments, the individual is called to respond authentically, often without clear answers, guided instead by a kind of existential faith and openness to transcendence.

In the context of religion, his ethics lean towards a kind of existential humility. He cautions against absolutizing one’s own ethical or religious perspective and encourages a continual openness to other perspectives as ciphers of the Encompassing.

Does this align with what you’re looking for in ethical thought? Are you more interested in the personal, societal, or perhaps spiritual dimensions of ethics?

Regarding communication, does Jaspers’ “open truthful dialogue” connect with Levinas’ “ethical responsibility for the other”

Yes. There is a deep resonance between Jaspers’ concept of open, truthful dialogue and Emmanuel Levinas’ idea of ethical responsibility for the Other, though they approach it from different philosophical starting points.

For Jaspers, communication is not merely the exchange of information but a profound, existential encounter. Genuine communication (Existenzkommunikation) involves openness, honesty, and a willingness to transcend one’s own perspective. It is through this dialogical process that individuals can encounter the Encompassing and approach truth—not as a static possession but as a dynamic process.

Levinas, on the other hand, emphasizes the face-to-face encounter with the Other as the foundation of ethics. The face of the Other calls us into an ethical relationship, one that precedes rational thought or theoretical frameworks. For Levinas, this encounter demands an infinite responsibility—it is as if the Other’s vulnerability and alterity place an ethical claim upon us.

Where they converge is in the primacy of the encounter with the Other as a moment of transcendence. For both philosophers, this encounter breaks through the ego’s self-centeredness and opens the self to something beyond itself. Jaspers frames this in terms of communication with the Encompassing, while Levinas articulates it as an ethical demand that originates in the Other’s absolute difference.

However, they differ in tone and emphasis. Jaspers maintains a kind of mutuality in dialogue—each person is both speaker and listener, both revealing and discovering. Levinas, meanwhile, focuses more on the asymmetry of the ethical relationship, where the Other’s need or command takes precedence over the self’s freedom.

Are you exploring this connection in a particular context, like interfaith dialogue, ethical theory, or maybe a specific social issue?

Jasper’s encompassing and boundary situations

Does Jasper’s encompassing and boundary situations fit in with mystery and existential non-being?

Absolutely! **Karl Jaspers’ concepts of “encompassing” and “boundary situations” integrate well with the mystery of God and existential nothingness, offering a bridge between existential philosophy and spiritual thought.

1. What Are Jaspers’ Key Concepts?

🟠 The Encompassing (Das Umgreifende)

  • Transcends Objective Knowledge: The Encompassing refers to what lies beyond the reach of concepts, categories, and empirical understanding. It is the ultimate reality or ground of being that we can intuit but never fully grasp.
  • Forms of the Encompassing: Jaspers identifies modes like Being-itself, Consciousness-as-such, Spirit, and Existence, each offering a different way of relating to reality.
🠞 Connection to Divine Mystery:
  • The Encompassing aligns with apophatic theology’s God beyond being, a mystery that cannot be conceptualized but only experienced.
  • It also resonates with radical theology’s idea of God as absence, where God is an experience of the void rather than a definable entity.

🟠 Boundary Situations (Grenzsituationen)

  • Moments of Confrontation: Boundary situations are existential crises—such as death, suffering, guilt, and struggle—where we face the limits of our control and understanding.
  • No Escape: Unlike ordinary problems, boundary situations cannot be solved but only endured. They force us to confront the void and the groundlessness of existence.
🠞 Connection to Existential Nothingness:
  • These situations evoke Heidegger’s anxiety and Sartre’s nothingness, where the self encounters the abyss of meaninglessness.
  • However, they also present an opportunity for authentic existence, akin to Kierkegaard’s leap of faith or Nietzsche’s embrace of the void.

2. Encompassing, Nothingness, and Divine Mystery

🌌 Transcendence in Immanence

  • For Jaspers, in boundary situations, we can experience a glimpse of the Encompassing, similar to how mystics encounter God in silence and unknowing.
  • This aligns with theologies that find God in absence, where faith involves dwelling in mystery and remaining open to transcendence.

🌑 The Void as Sacred Space

  • The existential void encountered in boundary situations can also be seen as a sacred space, where the ego dissolves, and one opens to the divine mystery.
  • Nothingness becomes not a negation but a potential—a fertile ground for transcendence or a new beginning.

3. Practical Implications: Living with the Void

🔍 In Spiritual Practice:

  • Contemplative traditions, such as Christian mysticism or Zen Buddhism, embrace silence, emptiness, and boundary experiences as pathways to the divine.
  • Prayer as a Boundary Situation: In apophatic prayer, like the Cloud of Unknowing, the soul encounters God through nothingness, mirroring Jaspers’ idea of finding the Encompassing through existential crisis.

💡 In Existential Growth:

  • Therapeutic Approaches: Existential therapy encourages individuals to embrace boundary situations as opportunities for authenticity and self-transcendence.
  • Ethical Life: Facing nothingness can lead to a renewed commitment to values and meaning-making, echoing Jaspers’ call to live with integrity in the face of the unknown.

4. A Shared Horizon: Beyond Despair

  • Jaspers avoids nihilism by suggesting that boundary situations lead not only to despair but also to a breakthrough into a larger reality (the Encompassing).
  • In Theology: This is akin to the Paschal Mystery in Christianity, where the cross (a boundary situation) leads to resurrection (new being).
  • In Existentialism: It mirrors how confronting nothingness can lead to freedom, authenticity, and the creation of meaning.

Would you like to explore how this perspective might offer practical wisdom for navigating modern crises, or how it might inform a theologically rich existentialism that holds space for both mystery and meaning?

Unknowability

How does the mystery and unknowability of god align with existential nothingness?

The mystery and unknowability of God, particularly in apophatic theology and radical theology, share intriguing resonances with existential nothingness. Both concepts confront the limits of human understanding and emphasize an encounter with the void—whether divine or ontological.

1. Apophatic (Negative) Theology: The God Beyond Being

In apophatic theology, God is understood through negation:

  • Beyond Concepts: God is not “good”, “powerful”, or “wise” in any humanly comprehensible sense. Instead, God is “beyond” these attributes, dwelling in a radical mystery.
  • Encounter with the Void: Figures like Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite and Meister Eckhart describe God as the “Divine Darkness”, a kind of holy nothingness where language fails and only silence or un-knowing remains.
🠞 Connection to Existential Nothingness:
  • Confronting the Abyss: Just as existentialists like Heidegger and Sartre see nothingness as a confrontation with the limits of human understanding, apophatic theology invites a spiritual encounter with unknowability.
  • Freedom in the Void: For both, there is a freedom that emerges from this nothingness—the freedom to create meaning (Sartre) or the freedom to be transformed by divine mystery (apophatic tradition).

2. Radical Theology: God as Absence

Contemporary theologians like John D. Caputo, Peter Rollins, and Thomas J. J. Altizer explore a “theology of the void”, where:

  • God is Not a Being: Instead of a supernatural entity, God is understood as an event, a call, or a trace—something that haunts reality with an absence rather than presence.
  • Embrace of Uncertainty: These theologians draw on postmodern philosophy (e.g., Derrida’s “différance”) to argue that faith involves a radical openness to doubt, loss, and unanswered questions.
🠞 Connection to Existential Nothingness:
  • Faith as a Leap into Nothingness: Kierkegaard’s “leap of faith” resonates here. Faith is not a grasping of certainty, but a trust in the void, a hope in what cannot be known.
  • Deconstruction of Idols: Just as existentialism deconstructs false meanings and inauthentic ways of being, radical theology deconstructs idolatrous concepts of God, leaving only the void where mystery resides.

3. Existential Nothingness: A Groundless Ground

  • Heidegger’s Nothingness: For Heidegger, the encounter with nothingness (e.g., through anxiety) is not nihilistic, but a revelation of Being itself. It is through the void that we encounter the possibility of authentic existence.
  • Sartre’s Nothingness: Sartre sees nothingness as an integral part of consciousness—the ability to negate, to say “no”, to imagine what is not. This nothingness is what gives freedom but also anguish.
🠞 Theological Resonance:
  • God as Possibility: Just as nothingness opens up possibility, some theologians speak of God not as a fixed being, but as the ground of possibility, a creative nothingness that births new realities.
  • Mystery and the Abyss: The mystical tradition often describes an encounter with God as an encounter with the abyss, a plunge into darkness, which mirrors the existential encounter with nothingness.

4. A Common Spiritual-Existential Praxis

  • Silence and Meditation: Both apophatic prayer and existential reflection value silence, emptiness, and contemplation of the void.
  • Death and Transformation: The “death of God” in radical theology and the death of meaning in existentialism both lead to a potential rebirth—a new understanding of self, world, or divinity.

5. Is This a Nihilistic View?

Not necessarily. While nihilism is often associated with despair, both theological nothingness and existential nothingness can lead to a profound hope:

  • In Radical Theology: The void is not an absence of meaning but an invitation to create and discover new modes of faith.
  • In Existentialism: Nothingness is not a negation of life but a space of freedom, where authentic existence becomes possible.

Would you like to explore how these ideas might influence spiritual practices, or perhaps how they could reshape ethical life in a post-metaphysical world?

Contemporary thought on non-being

The existentialist exploration of non-being continues to resonate in contemporary thought, intersecting with fields like psychology, theology, postmodern philosophy, and even pop culture. Here’s how:

1. Psychology and Therapy

  • Existential Therapy: Pioneered by figures like Rollo May, Viktor Frankl, and Irvin D. Yalom, this therapeutic approach draws heavily on existential themes of non-being, anxiety, and meaning-making. Clients are encouraged to confront their finitude and the void of meaninglessness, aiming to cultivate a more authentic existence.
  • Death Anxiety: Contemporary psychologists like Ernest Becker (The Denial of Death, 1973) and Terror Management Theory researchers explore how the fear of non-being drives much of human behavior, from cultural practices to personal defenses against mortality.

2. Postmodern Philosophy

  • Deconstruction and Absence: Philosophers like Jacques Derrida explore absence and nothingness through deconstruction, showing how meaning is always in flux and how presence is intertwined with absence.
  • Jean Baudrillard’s Simulacra: Baudrillard’s ideas of hyperreality and simulacra can be seen as a modern take on non-being, where the real is replaced by representations, creating a kind of ontological void.

3. Theology and Spirituality

  • Radical Theology: Thinkers like John D. Caputo and Peter Rollins incorporate non-being into a post-theistic or post-metaphysical framework. They explore a God beyond being, emphasizing the mystery and unknowability that align with existential nothingness.
  • Buddhist Philosophy: Contemporary dialogues between existentialism and Buddhism also highlight non-being, especially through concepts like emptiness (śūnyatā) and non-self (anattā), offering a different lens on nothingness as freedom from attachment.

4. Ethics and Social Theory

  • Critical Theory: Scholars like Judith Butler explore how non-being relates to precarity and marginalization, discussing how certain lives are rendered “ungrievable”—a kind of social non-being.
  • Environmental Philosophy: The Anthropocene has introduced a collective existential anxiety about ecological collapse, echoing nihilism and the threat of non-being on a civilizational scale.

5. Art, Literature, and Pop Culture

  • Film and Media: Movies like The Matrix, Fight Club, and Everything Everywhere All at Once grapple with non-being, nihilism, and the search for meaning.
  • Literature: Authors like Samuel Beckett and Haruki Murakami continue to explore existential voids, depicting characters in liminal spaces between being and non-being.

6. Tech and Digital Life

  • Virtual Reality and Identity: As we increasingly live digitally, questions of authentic existence and non-being arise. The metaverse, AI, and digital personas blur the line between presence and absence, echoing Sartre’s nothingness.
  • Transhumanism: Discussions about life extension, AI consciousness, and post-humanity confront us with new dimensions of non-being, especially around what it means to “exist”.

Would you like to explore how these themes might relate to specific contemporary issues—like mental health, spirituality, or technology—or delve deeper into a particular thinker’s modern influence?